Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 3,498
Groaned at 411 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,859 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

quite significant majority this time, I don't think the Bernese will dare cancel the vote again. My dad would be so happy. Yeah.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 6,560
Groaned at 390 Times in 286 Posts
Thanked 9,156 Times in 4,280 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
quite significant majority this time, I don't think the Bernese will dare cancel the vote again. My dad would be so happy. Yeah.
It wasn’t the Bernese that cancelled the vote, it was the ineligible voters trying to cheat the system.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 3,498
Groaned at 411 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,859 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Just depends how you look at it. I'll go with the version I stated.

When a region is given, without their assent, to another region- in exchange for the freedom of yet another region- it is a recipe for disaster. Especially as the best lands are then taken by the 'winners' who not only impose they language and religion- but actively repress those - it is bound to lead to troubles.

In 1815, the Vienna Convention, gave Vaud its freedom and independence from the Bernese. and in compensation they just 'gave' the Jura- the injustice was massive. My family were involved for so many generations, from way before 1815- so it is close to my heart.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:39
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
In 1815, the Vienna Convention, gave Vaud its freedom and independence
Likewise Ticino and the ...au cantons.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 6,560
Groaned at 390 Times in 286 Posts
Thanked 9,156 Times in 4,280 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Yes, but when Moûtier voted the first time they chose to stay with Bern(e), when they voted the last time cheaters spoiled the vote.

But, as you said, they have chosen. Chosen to jump from a fairly rich canton to a practically bankrupt one. This should have been a decision from the head, not from the heart.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:49
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,499
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,639 Times in 18,682 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
when they voted the last time cheaters spoiled the vote.
Is your IRL name Donald Trump?

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 3,498
Groaned at 411 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,859 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

A massive injustice put right. My dad would be so pleased, born 1912- and died 2009- he would have loved to see this. The Jura will make a success of this.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28.03.2021, 18:58
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,349
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,668 Times in 8,565 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 3,077
Groaned at 96 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 4,051 Times in 1,610 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

I remember doing military service up in the Jura in the 1980's. The animosity towards anything federal was palpable.

My first repetition course as a junior officer my colleagues thought they would prank me and told me to go to the Café du Soleil in Saignelégier to ask if I could billet some of my men there. I didn't know that the café was a separatist "location". I do remember making a fairly swift exit and not hanging around too long!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Snoopy for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
. The Jura will make a success of this.
Interesting to see how you support one set of people's right to self-determination, yet scorn another's. Sure, it won't perhaps have as big an impact as Brexit, but it might sound just a little hypocritical to praise the one and so strongly condemn the other...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 3,498
Groaned at 411 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,859 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.

The UK was never given to the EU, without their consent. The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at JackieH for this post:
  #12  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:24
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,483
Groaned at 114 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 7,239 Times in 3,301 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
Considering Bern is a bilingual canton and Moutier has about 86% French speakers and 48% Catholics.... how so were changes in these areas imposed on them
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:25
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,145
Groaned at 266 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 6,341 Times in 2,649 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Give Moutier to Jura, and Jura to France.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Stupid question - why didn't the original Jura separatists not join with NE rather than try and make their own canton out of nothing?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:41
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.
Yes of course the circumstances are completely different, but if the principal of self-determination is to be lauded then we must accept that it can apply to situations that we disagree with equally as well as to those we support.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
Give Moutier to Jura, and Jura to France.
Ederswiler says Never! Never! Never!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 28.03.2021, 19:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.

The UK was never given to the EU, without their consent. The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
Did the French part of Bern not send elected representatives to the cantonal government?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 28.03.2021, 20:09
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,145
Groaned at 266 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 6,341 Times in 2,649 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
Ederswiler says Never! Never! Never!
Needed to look that up. Let's make this an exclave of AG then, they also claim to be German-speaking.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 28.03.2021, 20:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 3,498
Groaned at 411 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,859 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
Yes of course the circumstances are completely different, but if the principal of self-determination is to be lauded then we must accept that it can apply to situations that we disagree with equally as well as to those we support.

there was no self-determination when the Jura was given to Bern - was there? So we are talking about a history of pure and simple annexion without any choice- and a language and religion imposed- all the best lands taken from indigenous population and no access to any of the Trades, etc.
As said, NO comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 28.03.2021, 20:50
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,789
Groaned at 432 Times in 335 Posts
Thanked 17,880 Times in 10,002 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Quote:
View Post
So we are talking about a history of pure and simple annexion without any choice
Sounds like how most countries in the world came into being to me. War, conquest, assimilation whether they wanted it or not. Just be thankful Switzerland gives the option to change. Doubt it's possible in many other countries, if at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spouse joins 1 month later. NotAllThere Permits/visas/government 7 01.09.2020 09:27
New in Moutier LauraF Introductions 1 01.10.2019 20:47
Tornos - up to 250 redundancies in Moutier and La Chaux-de-Fonds yacek Swiss politics/news 5 07.09.2012 21:59
EPFL joins Coursera chandler General off-topic 1 19.07.2012 22:48
St Gallen Joins In With Smoking Ban swissbob Swiss politics/news 1 02.06.2008 23:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0