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Old 28.03.2021, 18:18
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Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

quite significant majority this time, I don't think the Bernese will dare cancel the vote again. My dad would be so happy. Yeah.
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:20
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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quite significant majority this time, I don't think the Bernese will dare cancel the vote again. My dad would be so happy. Yeah.
It wasn’t the Bernese that cancelled the vote, it was the ineligible voters trying to cheat the system.
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:25
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Just depends how you look at it. I'll go with the version I stated.

When a region is given, without their assent, to another region- in exchange for the freedom of yet another region- it is a recipe for disaster. Especially as the best lands are then taken by the 'winners' who not only impose they language and religion- but actively repress those - it is bound to lead to troubles.

In 1815, the Vienna Convention, gave Vaud its freedom and independence from the Bernese. and in compensation they just 'gave' the Jura- the injustice was massive. My family were involved for so many generations, from way before 1815- so it is close to my heart.
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:39
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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In 1815, the Vienna Convention, gave Vaud its freedom and independence
Likewise Ticino and the ...au cantons.

Tom
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:43
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Yes, but when Moûtier voted the first time they chose to stay with Bern(e), when they voted the last time cheaters spoiled the vote.

But, as you said, they have chosen. Chosen to jump from a fairly rich canton to a practically bankrupt one. This should have been a decision from the head, not from the heart.
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:49
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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when they voted the last time cheaters spoiled the vote.
Is your IRL name Donald Trump?

Tom
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:54
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

A massive injustice put right. My dad would be so pleased, born 1912- and died 2009- he would have loved to see this. The Jura will make a success of this.
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Old 28.03.2021, 18:58
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Old 28.03.2021, 19:07
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

I remember doing military service up in the Jura in the 1980's. The animosity towards anything federal was palpable.

My first repetition course as a junior officer my colleagues thought they would prank me and told me to go to the Café du Soleil in Saignelégier to ask if I could billet some of my men there. I didn't know that the café was a separatist "location". I do remember making a fairly swift exit and not hanging around too long!
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:10
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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. The Jura will make a success of this.
Interesting to see how you support one set of people's right to self-determination, yet scorn another's. Sure, it won't perhaps have as big an impact as Brexit, but it might sound just a little hypocritical to praise the one and so strongly condemn the other...
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:14
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.

The UK was never given to the EU, without their consent. The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:24
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
Considering Bern is a bilingual canton and Moutier has about 86% French speakers and 48% Catholics.... how so were changes in these areas imposed on them
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:25
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Give Moutier to Jura, and Jura to France.
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:36
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

Stupid question - why didn't the original Jura separatists not join with NE rather than try and make their own canton out of nothing?
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:41
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.
Yes of course the circumstances are completely different, but if the principal of self-determination is to be lauded then we must accept that it can apply to situations that we disagree with equally as well as to those we support.
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:43
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Give Moutier to Jura, and Jura to France.
Ederswiler says Never! Never! Never!
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Old 28.03.2021, 19:46
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Not at all- totally and absolutely different circumstances and history. Chalk and cheese nonsense.

The UK was never given to the EU, without their consent. The UK never had another language imposed on it, nor a religion, education, culture, laws- without having any say at all. NO comparison whatsoever.
Did the French part of Bern not send elected representatives to the cantonal government?
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Old 28.03.2021, 20:09
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Ederswiler says Never! Never! Never!
Needed to look that up. Let's make this an exclave of AG then, they also claim to be German-speaking.
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Old 28.03.2021, 20:38
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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Yes of course the circumstances are completely different, but if the principal of self-determination is to be lauded then we must accept that it can apply to situations that we disagree with equally as well as to those we support.

there was no self-determination when the Jura was given to Bern - was there? So we are talking about a history of pure and simple annexion without any choice- and a language and religion imposed- all the best lands taken from indigenous population and no access to any of the Trades, etc.
As said, NO comparison.
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Old 28.03.2021, 20:50
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Re: Moûtier leaves Bern and joins Jura

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So we are talking about a history of pure and simple annexion without any choice
Sounds like how most countries in the world came into being to me. War, conquest, assimilation whether they wanted it or not. Just be thankful Switzerland gives the option to change. Doubt it's possible in many other countries, if at all.
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