Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 27.05.2021, 14:17
Capitan Harlock's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 109
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 42 Posts
Capitan Harlock is considered knowledgeableCapitan Harlock is considered knowledgeableCapitan Harlock is considered knowledgeable
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
NZZ reports that Sommaruga/Berset at least wanted to be more diplomatic in communicating the withdrawal. Apparently SVP and FDP were pushing for a "hard" response, and Amherd was the only one who argued for not ending the talks.

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/bundesrat...rag-ld.1627063

The FPD came out quite strongly saying that this was a mistake yesterday
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Capitan Harlock for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 27.05.2021, 15:10
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 11,998
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 22,926 Times in 8,297 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

The one thing I honestly dont get: The Swiss have a vote on burqas, minarets, whether cows should be allowed to have horns and what not else. This is the most important contract in at least a decade with the by far most important trading partner of the country. Yet the Bundesrat just decides on their own and clearly not unanimously either...

The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #183  
Old 27.05.2021, 15:20
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

Quote:
View Post
I hope Switzerland joins the UK in existing EU ultimately although by the time they do it will too late for me
Never say never.

I think the EU has it in their hand to be an attractive club that people want to join or stay inside, as they were back in the day, or whether they want to keep going down their present ugly path, which could well accelerate their ultimate suicide.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #184  
Old 27.05.2021, 15:22
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The one thing I honestly dont get: The Swiss have a vote on burqas, minarets, whether cows should be allowed to have horns and what not else. This is the most important contract in at least a decade with the by far most important trading partner of the country. Yet the Bundesrat just decides on their own and clearly not unanimously either...

The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
Because Switzerland has never voted about the EU or anything vaguely related to that topic.

Meanwhile Germany, who have genuinely never had the balls to ask their voters, are giving lessons on democracy. As in, don't have it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #185  
Old 27.05.2021, 15:38
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,140
Groaned at 406 Times in 315 Posts
Thanked 17,114 Times in 9,627 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
Because Switzerland has never voted about the EU or anything vaguely related to that topic.

Meanwhile Germany, who have genuinely never had the balls to ask their voters, are giving lessons on democracy. As in, don't have it.
What? Didn't they vote twice not to join the EU?
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 27.05.2021, 15:54
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,586
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,382 Times in 18,114 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
What? Didn't they vote twice not to join the EU?
No.

We voted in 1992 to not join the EEA, we never have voted on the EU.

We did vote several times to not join the UN, however.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #187  
Old 27.05.2021, 17:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 499 Times in 242 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

Quote:
View Post
Cassis is scum.
Come on, Tom - get off that fence and tell us what you really think
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 27.05.2021, 17:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 427
Groaned at 44 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 482 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The one thing I honestly dont get: The Swiss have a vote on burqas, minarets, whether cows should be allowed to have horns and what not else. This is the most important contract in at least a decade with the by far most important trading partner of the country. Yet the Bundesrat just decides on their own and clearly not unanimously either...

The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
Could this be the launch of Global Switzerland ? hot on the heels of the UK's Global Britain buzzword.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 27.05.2021, 17:11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Baselland
Posts: 370
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 499 Times in 242 Posts
LtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond reputeLtSoftDrink has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The one thing I honestly dont get: The Swiss have a vote on burqas, minarets, whether cows should be allowed to have horns and what not else. This is the most important contract in at least a decade with the by far most important trading partner of the country. Yet the Bundesrat just decides on their own and clearly not unanimously either...

The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
Aren't we told to pick our battles? The Bundesrat usually doesn't like being humiliated by a resounding no from the population.
Not cheering for the SVP but this "agreement" just plain stinks.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank LtSoftDrink for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 27.05.2021, 19:08
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,586
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,382 Times in 18,114 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

Quote:
View Post
Come on, Tom - get off that fence and tell us what you really think
He's a closet Italian.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #191  
Old 27.05.2021, 19:13
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,807
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,326 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The one thing I honestly dont get: The Swiss have a vote on burqas, minarets, whether cows should be allowed to have horns and what not else. This is the most important contract in at least a decade with the by far most important trading partner of the country. Yet the Bundesrat just decides on their own and clearly not unanimously either...

The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
This
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 27.05.2021, 19:42
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,292
Groaned at 394 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 19,994 Times in 10,412 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

Quote:
View Post
He's a closet Italian.

Tom
Everybody knows this. Everyone hoped for him to use the mimicry for our benefit...but no.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #193  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:04
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,807
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,326 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
Aren't we told to pick our battles? The Bundesrat usually doesn't like being humiliated by a resounding no from the population.
Not cheering for the SVP but this "agreement" just plain stinks.
Resounding no? Wasn't there a poll lately that suggested 60% in favour?

I think the problem is that most political parties had no clear position here, and they were afraid of looking clueless and weak in a campaign.

So yes, let's go back to voting on cows. And pad our shoulders for having been tough on the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:20
XDr's Avatar
XDr XDr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Northeast
Posts: 130
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 148 Times in 82 Posts
XDr has earned the respect of manyXDr has earned the respect of manyXDr has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
He's a closet Italian.

Tom
Quote:
View Post
Everybody knows this. Everyone hoped for him to use the mimicry for our benefit...but no.

Fooled noone with this... https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/nachfolge...4?reduced=true
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,946
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,896 Times in 6,184 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The SVP celebrates it as a victory of independence and democracy, but I fail to see any of the two.
Accepting the framework would have forced accepting whatever the EU will decide in the areas governed by it. In other words, decisions by the Swiss voters population gets replaced by subjugation under the EU dictate, ergo no more Swiss democracy in those areas. From that perspective, refusing the framework means keeping that decision power in Swiss hands, and makes it a win for Swiss democracy.

That just doesn't explain how accepting EU rule in a democratic process would somehow make the resulting state non-democratic. Or why that's as important as some try to paint it as.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
This user groans at Urs Max for this post:
  #196  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:38
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,807
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,326 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
Accepting the framework would have forced accepting whatever the EU will decide in the areas governed by it. In other words, decisions by the Swiss voters population gets replaced by subjugation under the EU dictate, ergo no more Swiss democracy in those areas. From that perspective, refusing the framework means keeping that decision power in Swiss hands, and makes it a win for Swiss democracy.

That just doesn't explain how accepting EU rule in a democratic process would somehow make the resulting state non-democratic. Or why that's as important as some try to paint it as.
Switzerland already automatically implements EU law on selected issues, for example Schengen. The late agreement would also have provided a clear dispute resolution mechanism by arbitration, which doesn't exist today.

Please stop the Wilhelm Tell freedom fighter interpretation of what happened here. Nobody won, and nobody looks good here.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at komsomolez for this post:
  #197  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:54
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,740
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,521 Times in 2,066 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland already automatically implements EU law on selected issues, for example Schengen. The late agreement would also have provided a clear dispute resolution mechanism by arbitration, which doesn't exist today.

Please stop the Wilhelm Tell freedom fighter interpretation of what happened here. Nobody won, and nobody looks good here.
I think you're misinterpreting a balanced post.

What was stated is that new rules would have subjugated certain laws to EU rules, which slightly reduces Swiss democratic control in those areas. BUT accepting some loss of control is also a normal part of the democratic process so it's not a threat to democracy overall.

Also I'd add that the people are still sovereign - a law is only valid as long as it is not revoked; it would kick off a shit storm to break an international agreement, but it would hardly be an unusual occurrence.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #198  
Old 27.05.2021, 20:57
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,807
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,326 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
I think you're misinterpreting a balanced post.

What was stated is that new rules would have subjugated certain laws to EU rules, which slightly reduces Swiss democratic control in those areas. BUT accepting some loss of control is also a normal part of the democratic process so it's not a threat to democracy overall.

Also I'd add that the people are still sovereign - a law is only valid as long as it is not revoked; it would kick off a shit storm to break an international agreement, but it would hardly be an unusual occurrence.
Fair one. The Wilhelm Tell statement was out of place in regards to Urs' post, but more directed at the jubilant sentiment I hear elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #199  
Old 27.05.2021, 21:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,946
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,896 Times in 6,184 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
Fair one. The Wilhelm Tell statement was out of place in regards to Urs' post, but more directed at the jubilant sentiment I hear elsewhere.
The entire post is out of place, and your claim false to boot.

The least you could do is to inform yourself instead of making a fool of yourself.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 27.05.2021, 21:33
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,807
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,435 Times in 1,326 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Quote:
View Post
The entire post is out of place, and your claim false to boot.

The least you could do is to inform yourself instead of making a fool of yourself.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss on-line backups. bowlie TV/internet/telephone 7 03.03.2019 12:23
The New Swiss Poverty Line for Expats - CHF200K The_Love_Doctor Daily life 61 10.12.2018 14:22
Swiss Salary Negotiations Skip Employment 33 31.07.2014 19:36
Recommendation about swiss VoIP line Marie_89 TV/internet/telephone 10 13.06.2012 02:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0