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  #221  
Old 28.05.2021, 16:02
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The moment the Swiss would cut the transmission capacity is the moment when Switzerland has blackouts. Maybe it's then also dark elsewhere if that makes you happier.
So jn other words, the EU wants a deal with Switzerland.

Both sides have something to bring to the table.

So nobody is going to let the bliaterals just expire.
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  #222  
Old 28.05.2021, 16:08
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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That is not a robust bargaining strategy. How do you exactly bargain by losing income and still paying fixed costs?

We're not letting your electrons pass, therefore we lose income, the infrastructure keeps depreciating and maintenance costs are still there. Suck it EU!
The transmission infrastructure (much of it in Switzerland) is for the most part already depreciated.

The generation infrastructure (much of it wind turbines and supposed "clean coal" in Germany) is not.

Who do you think stands to lose most in case of a divorce?

You don't go to the negotiating table to fail. But if you know where your bottom line is it makes it easier to strengthen your negotiating position.
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  #223  
Old 28.05.2021, 16:15
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Switzerland is a landlocked country literally surrounded by the EU (well except for those few kms of border with Liechtestein) so the negotiation is a bit more complicated as both parties know well they can't just have a wall going from Geneva to Vaduz... Free movement of people and goods will need to go on and it's in the best interest of both. As I said all this seems a bit posturing and an agreement will be reached under another guise.
You are arguing as if there is a choice between only two positions. Either a solid wall or Switzerland has to give in to the EU on all points.

In reality there is plenty of leeway and space for give and take.

Sometimes it takes a shock to make the other side realize they shouldn't be taking a certain outcome for granted.

This is what just happened.
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  #224  
Old 28.05.2021, 16:42
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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False. The dispute resolution mechanism would have been arbitration with each side selecting one arbitrator and the two agreeing on a chair. This is absolutely standard and creates normally a balanced tribunal.

The tribunal would then decide in any disputes under the agreements. If there was a question of interpretation of EU law, the tribunal would have to rely on the EUCJ. Also this is not abnormal - in any interpretation question of any national law, a tribunal or any judge would want to rely on the views of that nations (or supranation's) highest court.
But the arbitration court is really just fig leaf. The bilateral agreements which give Switzerland access to the single market are all about EU law. Pretty much any dispute between the EU and Switzerland would therefore revolve arround the interpretation of EU law. The arbitration court is bound by the legal opinion given by EUCJ, just like any national court of an EU-member country. Just to make this point clear, any dispute concerning the three issues where the Federal Council demanded a derogation from EU law (flanking measures, state aid, citizens`rights directive) would be decided by EUCJ, not the arbitration court. The arbritation court could decide independantly of the EUCJ on the appropriateness of the compensatory measures (Ausgleichsmassnahmen) taken by the EU in case Switzerland refuses to adopt new EU law. But that's just about it.
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  #225  
Old 28.05.2021, 16:53
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Just to make this point clear, any dispute concerning the three issues where the Federal Council demanded a derogation from EU law (flanking measures, state aid, citizens`rights directive) would be decided by EUCJ, not the arbitration court.
That would depend on what derogations, if any, the agreement foresees. Difficult to know without the exact wording proposals that were exchanged.
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  #226  
Old 28.05.2021, 17:04
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Do you remember Raab saying he had not quite understood how important geography is, and entry ports in and out of UK to EU? Doh, bl**dy doh.


Look at the geography of Switzerland!
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  #227  
Old 28.05.2021, 21:36
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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Cassis is scum.

Tom
You are very disrespectful
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  #228  
Old 28.05.2021, 21:52
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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You are very disrespectful
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
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  #229  
Old 28.05.2021, 22:06
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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You are very disrespectful
Doesn't change reality.

Tom
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  #230  
Old 28.05.2021, 22:08
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Do you remember Raab saying he had not quite understood how important geography is, and entry ports in and out of UK to EU? Doh, bl**dy doh.


Look at the geography of Switzerland!
We have at least 24 in Ticino, no problem to close them, as they did last year.

Tom
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  #231  
Old 28.05.2021, 22:10
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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You are very disrespectful
Do you support Hamas?

Pretty much the same thing.

Tom
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  #232  
Old 28.05.2021, 22:20
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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Do you support Hamas?

Pretty much the same thing.

Tom
You sound anti-semitic now as well. Shame on you.
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  #233  
Old 31.05.2021, 09:45
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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You are very disrespectful
Politicians exist for the sole purpose of being disrespected.

Tom
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  #234  
Old 01.06.2021, 00:16
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
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  #235  
Old 01.06.2021, 07:55
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
The last sentence of the comment on the left is a tad too optimistic - the angry generation is not the one of the youngsters (so no, they won't react to anything, they have their gadgets and their lives encapsulated there), is the one of the oldies who feel cheated by whatever was sold to them (many) decades ago. You can have a taste of that mentality on EF.
It's really difficult to find more frustrated/angry people than certain demographics and that is not the youngsters. They might wake up and smell the coffee when they'll realise they're the ones who'll have to pay the pensions of cohorts that truly despise them.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.06.2021 at 08:12.
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  #236  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:03
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The last sentence of the comment on the left is a tad too optimistic - the angry generation is not the one of the youngsters (so no, they won't react to anything, they have their gadgets and their lives encapsulated there), is the one of the oldies who feel cheated by whatever was sold to them (many) decades ago. You can have a taste of that mentality on EF.
It's really difficult to find more frustrated/angry people than certain demographics and that is not the youngsters. They might wake up and smell the coffee when they'll realise they're the ones who'll have to pay the pensions of cohorts that truly despise them.
Surely the young generation and all the kids who couldn't imagine what civilisation was like before the advent of the Smartphone, to which they and even an increasing number of older people - would be lost without it.
Also there was a Doctor Who episode called The Rise of the Cybermen, where the Doctor lands in an
parallel Earth where most of the population are controlled by EarPod devices, like those used for
Smartphones to dictate what people should think.

Doctor Who - Rise of the Cybermen

Last edited by John William; 02.06.2021 at 10:17.
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  #237  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:22
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
To me it seems to be the FT's commentators who are cherry picking the facts.

... and the geography as well.

I thought Swexit was for the other Switzerland, Swaziland place, whatever.
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  #238  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:24
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Surely the young generation and all the kids who couldn't imagine what civilisation was like before the advent of the Smartphone, to which they and even an increasing number of older people - would be lost without it.
Also there was a Doctor Who episode called The Rise of the Cybermen, where the Doctor lands in an
parallel Earth where most of the population are controlled by EarPod devices, like those used for
Smartphones to dictate what people should think.

Doctor Who - Rise of the Cybermen
The young would be lost without phones......another generation cannot sustain a conversation without recurring to TV to communicate any idea.
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  #239  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:26
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
It's sad to me that people jump straight to accusations of racism, without seeing that Switzerland has high wages, low taxes, low unemployment, a truly localized federal system of government and direct democracy. These are precious things to be preserved and treasured. Any risk is bound to be rejected by the Swiss, racism doesn't come into it, especially in a country where a fifth of the population are foreign.
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  #240  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:54
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Any risk is bound to be rejected by the Swiss, racism doesn't come into it, especially in a country where a fifth of the population are foreign.
It wouldn't come into it with your argument as most that 20% of foreigners are of the same race.
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