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Old 02.06.2021, 11:17
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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It wouldn't come into it with your argument as most that 20% of foreigners are of the same race.
Define race.

Seeing that not even scientists can come around to agreeing on any definition, race is an entirely subjective matter, no?

Even the police and judicial branches are of the opinion that an incident should, for statistical purposes, be classified as racist or racially motivated if the victim says it is. What others think then becomes irrelevant.

In other words, if your assailant was your identical twin, you could demand it be classified as a racist incident and the police would have to comply.

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  #242  
Old 02.06.2021, 11:40
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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It wouldn't come into it with your argument as most that 20% of foreigners are of the same race.
As brown Auslander from far away I got used to be regarded as a harmless oddity. My colleagues from neighboring countries buying homes are sometimes regarded as invaders. Sometimes, nationals of neighboring countries are distrusted more than people coming from far far away. Xenophobia is a complicate thing because reason is not involved.
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  #243  
Old 02.06.2021, 11:51
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
Accusations of cherry picking (will it never end?), racism – I’m sure CH is sadly lacking in gender questions and Islamophobia as well…Fail to understand why the motives of the EU always seem to be absolutely above board by its adherents. A fairly neutral opinion https://www.bzbasel.ch/schweiz/komme...und-ld.2145064

[snip] For the EU, however, the free movement of persons is sacrosanct. The single European market guarantees the free movement of goods, services, capital and people. This must not be changed. Even if a large number of people immigrate to a country within a short time – no measures for temporary dampening are permitted. The EU's rigor seems strange, given that the default values for participation in the euro – like a country's debt – are constantly being violated. To give just one example.

[snip] Interestingly, Professor Christa Tobler, who advocated the framework agreement, now speaks of the "dogmatics" of the EU. Tobler does not mean this as a compliment. Treating Switzerland differently from the United Kingdom was out of the question for Brussels. That is regrettable. If the EU had shown itself to be a little more flexible in the free movement of persons, the British would probably still be there. And the Federal Council would have signed the framework agreement.
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  #244  
Old 02.06.2021, 17:30
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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…reality on Swiss cherry-picking...
Race is a social construct, that doesn't really exist. At least according to the proponents of "critical theory" and its offshoots.

This is the very same group who throw that term around so easily. Talk about refuting your very own nonsense.
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I thought Swexit was for the other Switzerland, Swaziland place, whatever.
That already happened, the country's been renamed to Eswatini.
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Fail to understand why the motives of the EU always seem to be absolutely above board by its adherents.
That's a truism for pretty much everybody, otherwise one would concede that someone else's position is superior and should, logically, change one's own.

What's unique is the left's self-aggrandisation and moral posturing by simple declaration, while excluding (the fundmental concept behind the claimed xenophobia, racism, etc) everybody who dares to disagree, the exact opposite of the so-called inclusion.
TLDR: Just another of the very many self-defeating claims that are based on C(R)T.
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  #245  
Old 02.06.2021, 17:34
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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That already happened, the country's been renamed to Eswatini.
Good on them anyway for getting out of the EU before even joining.
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  #246  
Old 02.06.2021, 17:38
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Race is a social construct, that doesn't really exist. At least according to the proponents of "critical theory" and its offshoots.

This is the very same group who throw that term around so easily. Talk about refuting your very own nonsense.

That already happened, the country's been renamed to Eswatini.

That's a truism for pretty much everybody, otherwise one would concede that someone else's position is superior and should, logically, change one's own.

What's unique is the left's self-aggrandisation and moral posturing by simple declaration, while excluding (the fundmental concept behind the claimed xenophobia, racism, etc) everybody who dares to disagree, the exact opposite of the so-called inclusion.
TLDR: Just another of the very many self-defeating claims that are based on C(R)T.
You mean that if race is a social construct that doesn't really exist, how can it be included?

We need to ignore the gender distinction in formal paperwork and language but still insist on quotas?
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  #247  
Old 02.06.2021, 17:48
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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You mean that if race is a social construct that doesn't really exist, how can it be included?
The concept of a social construct is itself a social construct.
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  #248  
Old 02.06.2021, 17:53
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The concept of a social construct is itself a social construct.
Naja. Except quotas are real and the narrative contradicting it.

I got celtic genes. Are freckles a social construct too? It could be perceived as dirt by somebody else.
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  #249  
Old 02.06.2021, 18:13
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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That's a truism for pretty much everybody, otherwise one would concede that someone else's position is superior and should, logically, change one's own.
Agree, poorly phrased. What I meant, was that sometimes (very, very rarely) you should logically concede the CP has a (small) point too. This doesn’t mean their view is “superior” – nor do I have to dismiss my entire previous position.
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  #250  
Old 02.06.2021, 18:26
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Naja. Except quotas are real and the narrative contradicting it.

I got celtic genes. Are freckles a social construct too? It could be perceived as dirt by somebody else.
It's Marxism.

Individual property is a lie and an illusion, and thus a social construct

But people who own stuff are evil oppressors.

In other words, things are only true when you want them to be true.
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  #251  
Old 02.06.2021, 18:34
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Naja. Except quotas are real and the narrative contradicting it.

I got celtic genes. Are freckles a social construct too? It could be perceived as dirt by somebody else.
No they are not a social construct. Recent research has shown that freckles are a skin condition prevalent everywhere. However, it isn’t yet quite clear, why this trait isn’t that visible with a majority of Africans, Asians and…anyway, some people think freckles are cute
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  #252  
Old 02.06.2021, 18:40
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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It's Marxism.

Individual property is a lie and an illusion, and thus a social construct

But people who own stuff are evil oppressors.

In other words, things are only true when you want them to be true.
Right. Or, people agree on some common grounding idea and take it from there, should they want to.

Btw - Intellectual property gets treated by Marxist the same way. Calling people names like "intellectual elite" (demanding them to redistribute knowledge because even if you figure it out yourself, it's still a collective ownership) and the rest. Somehow intellect doesn't get treated as a "social construct". It yields a lot without much investment of the collective, a bit like those famous communist cows milking 1000litres on demand. You get some EFers harping about "superiority complex" when they encounter opposing views here at times. "Fake news" is another, etc. "Not my truth", I guess.

EU has this "common" and "shared" schtick when it's only a few chosen ones who protect very particular, un-common" or "non-shared" interests.
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  #253  
Old 02.06.2021, 18:44
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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No they are not a social construct. Recent research has shown that freckles are a skin condition prevalent everywhere. However, it isn’t yet quite clear, why this trait isn’t that visible with a majority of Africans, Asians and…anyway, some people think freckles are cute
Yeah. I was told the more I scrub the better the chance for them to leave
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  #254  
Old 02.06.2021, 19:01
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Agree, poorly phrased. What I meant, was that sometimes (very, very rarely) you should logically concede the CP has a (small) point too. This doesn’t mean their view is “superior” – nor do I have to dismiss my entire previous position.
Yes, definitely.

I wrote my post with the people commenting in the FT in mind, rather than the agreement/negotiators. The commentors seem to have a black/white view, without any version of grey - "you're either 100% with us or 100% against".
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  #255  
Old 02.06.2021, 19:03
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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You mean that if race is a social construct that doesn't really exist, how can it be included?
Yup. It pulls the rug out from under concepts like racism, they become meaningless.

Meanwhile, proponents of CRT and so-called antiracism like Robin DiAngelo are openly racist with Dreck like "every white person [in America] is racist". That's accompanied by openly racist remarks like Biden's during the interview by Charlamagne:
"If you have a problem figuring out whether you are for me or for Trump, then you ain't black."
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We need to ignore the gender distinction in formal paperwork and language but still insist on quotas?
Exactly, another self-contradiction.

In German it's even worse, the feminists acually demand that people explicitly distinguish, ignoring that by distinguishing between the sexes and genders they get reinforced each and every time. It's the inverse of MLK's colorblindness, of course you see the difference between black and white people but that doesn't (shouldn't, rather) make one.
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  #256  
Old 02.06.2021, 19:25
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

I despise intolerance. But discrimination in the name of tolerance makes no sense, either. There must be a kinder, smarter way to go about this.
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Old 02.06.2021, 19:49
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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I despise intolerance. But discrimination in the name of tolerance makes no sense, either. There must be a kinder, smarter way to go about this.
Indeed, there should be a perfect solution. A good enough solution must not distract us from the search of perfect
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Old 02.06.2021, 19:51
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Indeed, there should be a perfect solution. A good enough solution must not distract us from the search of perfect
Any discrimination ain't gnuff.
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  #259  
Old 02.06.2021, 22:36
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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I despise intolerance. But discrimination in the name of tolerance makes no sense, either. There must be a kinder, smarter way to go about this.
There is: dialogue and discussion.

Until then I heed Coca Cola's openly racist antiracism training and become less white by identifying as a black lesbian penguin (for 1-2 seconds, every little bit helps).
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Old 02.06.2021, 22:46
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Any discrimination ain't gnuff.
You're right. Let's join the Swiss fight against prejudice:

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The typical Ferrari driver is arrogant, manly, rich and has no sense of the environment. These are the common prejudices. But are they also true? For the new video format “Min Charre” we confront drivers with prejudices that prevail in society. Today we introduce Andrea (33) from the Canton of Zurich. He says: “No Ferrari driver I know is arrogant. Me neither."
https://www.20min.ch/video/nur-weil-...t-316641384958
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