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  #21  
Old 27.04.2021, 11:54
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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What does have to do with the Swiss/EU negotiations?
Wage protection.
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  #22  
Old 27.04.2021, 12:11
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Worse conditions, actually.

When I was 20, I had private insurance. Now I have the bare minimum for both mandatory and complimentary insurance. Deductible has not changed (500 chf).

Cheapest mandatory health insurance with 500 chf deductible is about 395 chf/month.

As per prices: 5000 chf/month 20 years ago was way different than, let's say, 6000 chf/month today. Apart from Ticino, apartment prices have skyrocketed!
Bad deal. I pay 399.55 with a franchise of 300.00. And I'm female, afaIk we pay more.
And this "bare minimum" sent me through the craziest, high cost check-ups.
I keep wondering what people want done to themselves that makes them wonder about whether it's covered or not. It was not once questioned by my insurances. There was only one time, when the insurance kind of asked my GP "are things really that bad and do you still have it under control?" (well, I guess they phrased it differently but they can't ask for details, they only see what they're paying and - my - life was tough back then). So he wrote back "yep". And that was it.

Anyhoo, back to Swiss/EU negotiations.
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  #23  
Old 27.04.2021, 12:38
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Salaries don't increase by magic. Has productivity increased? On Swiss average, yes. But, has it increased in your job?
This is predicated on the idea that people aren't drastically underpaid.
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  #24  
Old 27.04.2021, 12:40
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

From what I understood, from friends who are working in Brussels, but "for the other side", the EU's stance is that Switzerland is tiny, being difficult, and oh my, do we really need to expend all that energy for them? So they won't budge.
Switzerland tried replacing their representatives in Brussels a few times, and from reading about them I get the feeling that they know best what is good for the country and the general population is too stupid to be trusted with decisions and this whole democracy and voting thing is such a bother, we should just trust them and give them all the power they want and all will be good.

From what I can remember (faintly) the EU was threatening to replace the Swiss financial hub with London, but then Brexit happened, and that threat fell flat on its face. I do hope some Swiss bankers sent a thank you note to the other side of the channel.
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  #25  
Old 27.04.2021, 12:42
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

The EU never does anything until the very last day.
And CH stands around and discusses things endlessly until the very last hour.
So, nothing gets done about anything until the knife is at the throat.
In the meantime, politicians get well overpaid acting like it's all the other guy's fault and making boring talk shows.
My benefit from it all is upon watching such talk shows I fall calmly in a nice sober heavenly sleep and feel well rested the next day.
And that's the bottom line!
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  #26  
Old 27.04.2021, 12:51
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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From what I understood, from friends who are working in Brussels, but "for the other side", the EU's stance is that Switzerland is tiny, being difficult, and oh my, do we really need to expend all that energy for them?So they won't budge.
Switzerland tried replacing their representatives in Brussels a few times, and from reading about them I get the feeling that they know best what is good for the country and the general population is too stupid to be trusted with decisions and this whole democracy and voting thing is such a bother, we should just trust them and give them all the power they want and all will be good.

From what I can remember (faintly) the EU was threatening to replace the Swiss financial hub with London, but then Brexit happened, and that threat fell flat on its face. I do hope some Swiss bankers sent a thank you note to the other side of the channel.
<<Switzerland is tiny, being difficult, and oh my, do we really need to expend all that energy for them?>>

No news here. That was established ages ago and the German Friedrich von Schiller poured his frustration (or maybe his amusement?) about it into Wilhelm Tell in 1804.
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  #27  
Old 27.04.2021, 13:30
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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‘Some of the current treaties will begin to expire – such as free trade in medical technology. Also, if agreements are not updated – Switzerland will be frozen out of new developments in the EU’s single market, such as electricity trading’.

Source: https://www.worldradio.ch/news/bites...game-underway/
That sounds like the typical pro EU campaign. I think CH will still access all it needs or is necesarry to access. This "we will phase them out" EU threat hasn't so far pushed CH behind.

It was the same scary story for BREXIT. The UK seem to be doing quite well and most of all advancing, reopening, getting back in the saddle. I just got my invites to perform in London again. They forget that they are ahead of the game. I can't even sing in the Victoria Hall in GE yet, which is next door.

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  #28  
Old 27.04.2021, 15:12
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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I am sorry, but I genuinely don't get why wanting to protect Swiss wages is considered a joke or anything else.

After all, most expats do move to Switzerland because of its high salaries.

Anyway, I, for one, don't want to end up with salary cuts while having to deal with Swiss prices.
This is the same argument that comes up in every single trade deal, it does not matter who is involved.

Nobody wants to do a deal that results in cheap products entering their market resulting in impacts on local business, salaries etc... so there is nothing new there.

And I can't see the Swiss government nor the voters for that matter agreeing to a deal that will disadvantage themselves.
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  #29  
Old 27.04.2021, 15:20
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The EU never does anything until the very last day.
And CH stands around and discusses things endlessly until the very last hour.
So, nothing gets done about anything until the knife is at the throat.
In the meantime, politicians get well overpaid acting like it's all the other guy's fault and making boring talk shows.
My benefit from it all is upon watching such talk shows I fall calmly in a nice sober heavenly sleep and feel well rested the next day.
And that's the bottom line!
In the end I expect nothing will change. The Swiss government can ill afford to have a series of national referenda on it as it would be hard to take them as seriously being able to negotiate on be half of the country going forward.

On the EU side they can ill afford to have bust ups in national parliaments etc. over the approval of a new trade agreement.

So my expectation is a bit of window dressing and just carry on as before.
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  #30  
Old 27.04.2021, 17:17
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Switzerland and the EU have different interpretations of The EU Citizenship Directive: Switzerland wants free movement for employees and for their families while the EU wants it for all its citizens.

Regarding residence permits, having language tests and being required to wait 10 years for a permanent residence permit (C) is seen by the EU as a barrier to the free movement of people.

On unfair competition: an EU company which wins a contract in CH can't automatically move its workers here on the next day. As far as I know, there has to be a waiting period of 8 days and some paperwork involved and perhaps there are some rules for the salaries of such employees.

On the same note, cantonal banks have unlimited guarantees from the cantons which seems to me to be unfair competition. And I know that the banks pay part of their profit to the cantons. Having lower borrowing costs compare with banks that lack this guarantee (and that is all the banks from the EU) can't be called fair.

EU is saying that Switzerland enjoyed all the above benefits for quite some time but the EU is no longer willing to grant them anymore.
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  #31  
Old 27.04.2021, 18:44
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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From what I understood, from friends who are working in Brussels, but "for the other side", the EU's stance is that Switzerland is tiny, being difficult, and oh my, do we really need to expend all that energy for them? So they won't budge.
Are these the same folks who couldn’t figure out in advance that three chairs were needed to avoid their boss feeling alone, deserted and hurt recently in Turkey?
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  #32  
Old 27.04.2021, 18:51
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Are these the same folks who couldn’t figure out in advance that three chairs were needed to avoid their boss feeling alone, deserted and hurt recently in Turkey?
They worried she'd make a fuss like Helmut Kohl.

Last edited by curley; 27.04.2021 at 21:43. Reason: youtube not working AGAIN, put link instead
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  #33  
Old 27.04.2021, 19:02
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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EU is saying that Switzerland enjoyed all the above benefits for quite some time but the EU is no longer willing to grant them anymore.
Just another reason to say "Screw EU"!

Tom
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  #34  
Old 27.04.2021, 19:40
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Salaries don't increase by magic. Has productivity increased? On Swiss average, yes. But, has it increased in your job? https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...ductivity.html
If prices are going up while salaries are stable, this would suggest productivity is going down, oder?
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Old 27.04.2021, 20:02
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

The arrogance of the EU is unbelievable - from today‘s Times of London:

Michel Barnier, the former French commissioner who negotiated both the Brexit withdrawal treaty and the TCA deal last year, repeated his plea for the EU to “learn lessons” from Brexit.

“This is a divorce. It’s a warning, Brexit, and it’s a failure — a failure of the EU,” he said. “Why did 52 per cent of the British vote against Europe? There are reasons for that — social anger and tension which existed in many regions in the UK but also in many regions of the EU.”
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  #36  
Old 27.04.2021, 20:43
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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That sounds like the typical pro EU campaign. I think CH will still access all it needs or is necesarry to access. This "we will phase them out" EU threat hasn't so far pushed CH behind.

It was the same scary story for BREXIT. The UK seem to be doing quite well and most of all advancing, reopening, getting back in the saddle. I just got my invites to perform in London again. They forget that they are ahead of the game. I can't even sing in the Victoria Hall in GE yet, which is next door.
That sounds like typical Breexit arrogance...the idea that because Britain (or Switzerland) is somehow 'special', they must be allowed to cherry pick and eat the cake while they keep it.

You don't want to make a deal, or want to renegade the one you already signed? Fine, you have the right to do so...but then be adult and accept the consequences of your actions, instead of always blaming somebody else.
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  #37  
Old 27.04.2021, 21:34
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The arrogance of the EU is unbelievable - from today‘s Times of London:

Michel Barnier, the former French commissioner who negotiated both the Brexit withdrawal treaty and the TCA deal last year, repeated his plea for the EU to “learn lessons” from Brexit.

“This is a divorce. It’s a warning, Brexit, and it’s a failure — a failure of the EU,” he said. “Why did 52 per cent of the British vote against Europe? There are reasons for that — social anger and tension which existed in many regions in the UK but also in many regions of the EU.”
Despite being a rabid Brexiteer I have a lot of time for Barnier. Never lost his cool. Unfailingly polite. Begs the question why he isn't running the shop instead of the current "leadership", who appears to the "b" Team of the CDU - and the current "A" Team don't even seen any good.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 27.04.2021 at 23:19.
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  #38  
Old 27.04.2021, 22:25
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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That sounds like typical Breexit arrogance...the idea that because Britain (or Switzerland) is somehow 'special', they must be allowed to cherry pick and eat the cake while they keep it.

You don't want to make a deal, or want to renegade the one you already signed? Fine, you have the right to do so...but then be adult and accept the consequences of your actions, instead of always blaming somebody else.
Oh irony...
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  #39  
Old 28.04.2021, 11:06
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Oh irony...
Care to elaborate, instead of showing the typical EF smugness?

Which party is treating of tearing up the NI Protocol that THEY SIGNED? BJ, like many English nationalists, thought that since England is 'special', they can sign a contract, not honour it, and expect no consequences, because britannia rules the waves...

Back to the topic of the Swiss-EU relation...the Swiss have the right to limit immigration from the EU, but then they can't expect like spoiled kids to have unrestricted movement of goods and capitals with the EU.

The EU is trying to protect the rights of their citizen, which is exactly what they must do. I'd be angry if they'd cave in to every cherry-picking attempt of countries that think they are special and can skip the rules...
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Old 28.04.2021, 11:13
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The EU is trying to protect the rights of their citizen, which is exactly what they must do.
That must be a different EU to the one I'm thinking about.

I was thinking of the EU that is headquartered in Brussels and that keeps coming up in the news.
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