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Old 29.04.2021, 08:11
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Regarding residence permits, having language tests and being required to wait 10 years for a permanent residence permit (C) is seen by the EU as a barrier to the free movement of people.
are language tests required now? And aren´t C permits available to EU citizens after 5 years?
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  #42  
Old 29.04.2021, 09:05
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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...and don't want to give out state aid to every european citizen who suddenly decides to move to Switzerland?
That is NOT what the state aid thing is about. As another poster commented, it is actually about Swiss state aid to (particularly) certain banks.

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In the last few years, salaries have not increased,
Yes they have. Both real and nominal. Not by much I know but given the already high level you cannot expect too much more.

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  #43  
Old 29.04.2021, 09:11
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

EU wants its citizens to be treated as Swiss citizens when it comes to social welfare, stating that if somebody works in CH, they must benefit from social aid, no matter the kind of permit they have:

European citizenship directive: under the framework, EU citizens in Switzerland would have the same right to social security as Swiss residents. Critics in Switzerland fear that this could result in a wave of “social welfare immigration”.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/will-th...deal-/46540072
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  #44  
Old 29.04.2021, 10:36
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?
There is another point not mentioned here, the elephant in the room no one is currently talking about. According to the new treaty Switzerland has to automatically adopt EU laws. It goes only in one direction, from EU to Switzerland. Basically a master/slave relation or parent/worker to stay PC. This is a backdoor opened to EU and potentially everything can go through it.

Now Bern knows that the treaty has no chance to survive a referendum so the whole ongoing negotiation is a theater meant to save some politician faces. EU is weak and can do nothing about it, they'll probably issue threats and some symbolic punishment. Even if EU would try to do something, many EU countries wouldn't agree. Last time I checked Switzerland had a trade deficit with each neighbouring country.
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  #45  
Old 29.04.2021, 10:48
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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There is another point not mentioned here, the elephant in the room no one is currently talking about. According to the new treaty Switzerland has to automatically adopt EU laws. It goes only in one direction, from EU to Switzerland. Basically a master/slave relation or parent/worker to stay PC. This is a backdoor opened to EU and potentially everything can go through it.

Now Bern knows that the treaty has no chance to survive a referendum so the whole ongoing negotiation is a theater meant to save some politician faces. EU is weak and can do nothing about it, they'll probably issue threats and some symbolic punishment. Even if EU would try to do something, many EU countries wouldn't agree. Last time I checked Switzerland had a trade deficit with each neighbouring country.
Thanks, this makes things much clearer. For a moment there I almost thought that EU bureaucrats were interested in workers rights or the rights of poor people to access welfare.
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  #46  
Old 29.04.2021, 13:19
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Thanks, this makes things much clearer. For a moment there I almost thought that EU bureaucrats were interested in workers rights or the rights of poor people to access welfare.
To be fair they probably are - it's the dogmatism around "how" to do things, and the bolting on of a load of other stuff that's the problem.

Switzerland has good laws on worker health and safety and a very strong welfare setup. Arguably although they are a bit less protective than the EU laws, they are at least sustainable and avoid some of the pitfalls around incentive to work etc.

But the EU is becoming more and more dogmatic about having to match all rules 100%, and having to automatically adopt any changes without discussion, rather than focusing on a core baseline which gives enough but not too much.
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Old 29.04.2021, 13:31
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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To be fair they probably are - it's the dogmatism around "how" to do things, and the bolting on of a load of other stuff that's the problem.

Switzerland has good laws on worker health and safety and a very strong welfare setup. Arguably although they are a bit less protective than the EU laws, they are at least sustainable and avoid some of the pitfalls around incentive to work etc.

But the EU is becoming more and more dogmatic about having to match all rules 100%, and having to automatically adopt any changes without discussion, rather than focusing on a core baseline which gives enough but not too much.
To complement what you are saying, Switzerland is becoming more and more dogmatic about having privileged access to the EU market while cherry-picking in its treaties with the EU, rather than focusing on a core baseline that gives enough access but not too much.
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  #48  
Old 29.04.2021, 13:54
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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To complement what you are saying, Switzerland is becoming more and more dogmatic about having privileged access to the EU market while cherry-picking in its treaties with the EU, rather than focusing on a core baseline that gives enough access but not too much.
Which is good, my horse choice for this race is the Swiss one.
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  #49  
Old 29.04.2021, 18:03
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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To complement what you are saying, Switzerland is becoming more and more dogmatic about having privileged access to the EU market while cherry-picking in its treaties with the EU, rather than focusing on a core baseline that gives enough access but not too much.
It's true Switzerland has access to the EU market, but EU has the same access to the Swiss market. From a German, French and Italian point of view this is good business, as these countries export more to Switzerland compared to what they import. I don't see any cherry picking.
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  #50  
Old 29.04.2021, 19:15
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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To complement what you are saying, Switzerland is becoming more and more dogmatic about having privileged access to the EU market while cherry-picking in its treaties with the EU, rather than focusing on a core baseline that gives enough access but not too much.
No, having a small set of basic rules is exactly what Switzerland is asking for. That is only cherry-picking in that the range of what Europe wants is huge, and Switzerland isn't asking for anything without fully reciprocal rules.

What it is not happy about are EU laws are so interlinked - for example, no free trade without full free movement of people. And free movement of people is actually stated as a step towards the goal of a common EU citizenship and that the changes in laws that will lead to this are automatically applied.

I'm generally fairly pro-EU, but the goal of creating an EU superstate followed by too many European bureaucrats is destroying the previous fairly effective setup and triggering nationalism, Brexit and so on.
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  #51  
Old 29.04.2021, 20:27
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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It's true Switzerland has access to the EU market, but EU has the same access to the Swiss market. From a German, French and Italian point of view this is good business, as these countries export more to Switzerland compared to what they import. I don't see any cherry picking.
And they have special prices they export to Switzerland for. Guess what, they are higher!
They would miss this market.
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  #52  
Old 29.04.2021, 20:34
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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...What it is not happy about are EU laws are so interlinked - for example, no free trade without full free movement of people. And free movement of people is actually stated as a step towards the goal of a common EU citizenship and that the changes in laws that will lead to this are automatically applied....
Free trade without free movement of people is just a new version of colonisation and this cannot work in democratic countries. It cannot even work in non democratic countries without huge investment of force.
I am glad that EU insists on it, of course it is up to both sides to accept what they want.
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  #53  
Old 29.04.2021, 20:45
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Free trade without free movement of people is just a new version of colonisation and this cannot work in democratic countries. It cannot even work in non democratic countries without huge investment of force.
I am glad that EU insists on it, of course it is up to both sides to accept what they want.
Screw EU.

Tom
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  #54  
Old 29.04.2021, 21:02
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Free trade without free movement of people is just a new version of colonisation and this cannot work in democratic countries. It cannot even work in non democratic countries without huge investment of force.
I am glad that EU insists on it, of course it is up to both sides to accept what they want.
A mutual arrangement where you buy and sell without Tarifs is not colonialism. Otherwise Liechtenstein is a colony of Portugal and/or vice versa.

Colonialism is when you march into someone's country and put yourself in charge.
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  #55  
Old 29.04.2021, 21:07
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

As long as you have Lying Uschi running the EU, there will be no peace.

Bet she was was member of the Hitler youth!

Tom
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Old 29.04.2021, 21:14
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

The irony in all this is people running away from CH every Saturday to shop in Italy, France, Germany and Austria. Return to CH to complain how the rent is damned high. Repeat ad nauseam.

Maybe everyone would be happier with better cross-border commuter trains, or home-office
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Old 29.04.2021, 21:30
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Colonialism is when you march into someone's country and put yourself in charge.
In short, what the Lying Kraut is trying to do to CH.

Tom
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Old 29.04.2021, 21:49
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Free trade without free movement of people is just a new version of colonisation and this cannot work in democratic countries. It cannot even work in non democratic countries without huge investment of force.
I am glad that EU insists on it, of course it is up to both sides to accept what they want.
The free movement seems some kind of colonisation of a few countries as the movement is all in one direction. The only place better for Germans would be Switzerland

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As long as you have Lying Uschi running the EU, there will be no peace.

Bet she was was member of the Hitler youth!

Tom
Being born in 1958? Do your homework.
These kind of remarks are not helping, mate.
Plus she did not invent the EU, Juncker was worse (he was not even intelligent or if he was he hid it well behind the alcohol fog).

This kind of struggle is going on ever since Switzerland was founded. Only the others kind of untied. LOL. Parmelin did it the Swiss way: "Wir bleiben im Gespräch" (kind of we keep in touch).
Toodle-pip.
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Old 29.04.2021, 21:53
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

Agreed, the Junkie was no better than the current idiote.

Tom
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Old 29.04.2021, 22:18
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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As long as you have Lying Uschi running the EU, there will be no peace.

Bet she was was member of the Hitler youth!

Tom
Thanks to curley for correcting the preposterous Hitler Youth allegation. You got there first.

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