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Old 27.05.2021, 00:08
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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According to this years of talks with the EU have broken down.

BBC News - Swiss abandon years of talks and reject treaty
A sound strategy to enjoy the next summer vacations.

Don't read much into it, just kicking the can down the road
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  #162  
Old 27.05.2021, 06:32
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

"Switzerland will not sign the framework agreement with the European Union after all. The Federal Council put an end to the negotiations on Wednesday. However, it considers it important to preserve bilateral cooperation.

"Our future is where we are, in the heart of Europe. We speak French, German and Italian, just like our neighbours. We are destined to live together," Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis told the media.

The institutional agreement, which was negotiated in 2013, is not the right way to settle relations with the European Union (EU), he continued. The breakdown in negotiations has been stipulated in writing to the European Commission. State Secretary Livia Leu went to Brussels to hand over the letter to Stephanie Riso, the chief negotiator on the EU side.

Different theory and practice
The disagreements crystallised around two points linked to free movement: wage protection and the directive on the rights of European citizens.

In theory, Bern and Brussels agreed on the principle of equal pay for equal work. In practice, however, this was not the case, said the Ticino. Without the improvements desired by Switzerland, "it would have been impossible to guarantee the current accompanying measures".

A full adoption of the EU directive would have meant "a paradigm shift" in immigration policy, he continued. Bern did not want this. The third outstanding issue, state aid, could have been resolved, provided a solution had been found on the previous two.

Adoption of EU law
The Federal Council is aware that a refusal to sign the Framework Agreement could have negative consequences. To limit the damage, mitigation measures have already been implemented. In 2019, the government activated the measure to protect the Swiss stock exchange infrastructure in response to the EU's refusal to grant stock exchange equivalence.

In anticipation of the failure to update the chapter on medical devices in the Agreement on the Elimination of Technical Barriers to Trade, the Federal Council decided on unilateral measures to ensure security of supply and market surveillance.

It intends to continue along these lines. The Federal Council has decided to take unilateral measures to ensure security of supply and market surveillance. "We will do this without the pressure of negotiations or a European court.

Switzerland wants to send a positive signal to the EU that it wants a stable relationship, she explained. Differences between Swiss and EU law can be an obstacle for Bern. They can hamper cross-border cooperation and harm the economy.

Start of a new chapter
For the Federal Council, however, it is important to preserve bilateral cooperation and to maintain the existing agreements. This is in the interests of both parties. The European Union is Switzerland's most important partner and Bern is one of Brussels' most important partners, said Ignazio Cassis.

"Switzerland remains a reliable and committed partner for Brussels," he added. The Federal Council will commit itself to a rapid release of the funds necessary for Switzerland's second contribution to the Parliament, and will seek to finalise the memorandum of understanding with the EU as soon as possible.

However, the Foreign Minister also stressed that he expects Brussels to treat Switzerland like other third countries. Linking the institutional agreement with research programmes, such as 'Horizon Europe', is "irrelevant".

"We are starting a new chapter in our relations with the EU which we hope will be long," concluded Swiss President Guy Parmelin. "We are open and ready for cooperation."

Long negotiations
The fate of the framework agreement had seemed increasingly uncertain for some time. The European Union believed that it had put the finishing touches to the text in 2018. But the Federal Council did not. Since then, the negotiations have only stalled.

The summit meeting between the President of the Confederation, Guy Parmelin, and the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Lyen, in April did not produce the hoped-for breakthrough. Recently, there have been many calls for alternatives."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.bluewin.ch/fr/infos/suis...ns-726349.html

Can't see the EU just agreeing and leaving things as they are. Expect to see some sort of backlash.
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  #163  
Old 27.05.2021, 07:08
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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...Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis told the media...
Cassis is scum.

Tom
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  #164  
Old 27.05.2021, 07:40
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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  #165  
Old 27.05.2021, 07:49
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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The summit meeting between the President of the Confederation, Guy Parmelin, and the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Lyen, in April did not produce the hoped-for breakthrough.
Good for him.
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  #166  
Old 27.05.2021, 09:52
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

I came to Switzerland before 2005 when they opened the doors to Europe and my job prospects surely but slowly went to hell.

The French have invaded Geneva, the Germans Basel and Zurich. Opportunities for native English speakers have crashed in the past decade.

I hope Switzerland joins the UK in existing EU ultimately although by the time they do it will too late for me, although hopefully not for me kids. [who are bilingual should anyone ask, so they have a plan B]
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  #167  
Old 27.05.2021, 09:58
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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4 new threads, at least.
Even worst TC will no doubt be joining the comments with - I told you so.
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  #168  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:10
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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I hope Switzerland joins the UK in existing EU ultimately although by the time they do it will too late for me..
Switzerland has never been in the EU. You meant Schengen, I think, bilaterals, etc. .

There might have been floods of workforce from neighboring states, but I think it is because of the salary politics in FR, Germany and Italy. Not CH. So, short-term if you think about it in a long term perspective. Covid definitely changed that, too.
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  #169  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:17
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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The French have invaded Geneva, the Germans Basel and Zurich. Opportunities for native English speakers have crashed in the past decade.

I cannot comment on individual circumstances but anyone who watches the SRF evening news at 7.30 pm can now hardly fail to notice the amount of German ‘experts’ wheeled out to comment on this that or ‘t other.
Whether it’s a political commentator or a business PR honcho from some firm, most evenings there are Germans who are holding forth on various subjects as opposed to Swiss.
I am well aware that the French tend to employ other French whenever they can but the creeping germanisation ( I am not Swiss so no dog in the fight ) is particularly noticeable for someone who has recently returned to Switzerland after a few years away.

Last edited by MusicChick; 27.05.2021 at 10:19. Reason: fixed quote
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  #170  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:18
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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I came to Switzerland before 2005 when they opened the doors to Europe and my job prospects surely but slowly went to hell.

The French have invaded Geneva, the Germans Basel and Zurich. Opportunities for native English speakers have crashed in the past decade.

I hope Switzerland joins the UK in existing EU ultimately although by the time they do it will too late for me, although hopefully not for me kids. [who are bilingual should anyone ask, so they have a plan B]
Learn the language(s) and stop complaining, instead of being yet another entitled "expat".
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  #171  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:25
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

What a clown hahahaha
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  #172  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:25
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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Learn the language(s) and stop complaining, instead of being yet another entitled "expat".
I should have mentioned I lived & worked across the border in France in 2000. It was a nice sleepy quiet place. Go there now and the houses stretch from Geneva out to the first autoroute exit.

All of them French ex-pats who don't want to learn any other language either, nor for that matter do they want to live in Switzerland, they just want to earn Swiss salaries.
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  #173  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:32
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

White-collar so-called "educated" people supporting outsourcing of blue-collar jobs to cheaper countries...then when Karma bites them back and they have to experience competition from better educated people from abroad, complaining that the borders should be shut.

"I'm all right Jack" attitude...you had the opportunity to move to Switzerland, now you want to deny the same opportunities to other people because you want to keep your privileges.

You want a "competitive society"? There it is..."Oh, no it must be competitive as long as it doesn't affect me".

This is like physical shops trying to shut down Amazon, because they are not able to keep up with innovation.
Oh, wait a moment...protectionist Switzerland actually "gently pushed" Amazon out of Switzerland, by passing a law meant to protect Swiss e-commerce websites. I laugh at the stupidity of Breexiters, when they complain about "EU protectionism", yet they live in Switzerland, which is even more protectionist.

Last edited by NewInTownForever; 27.05.2021 at 12:07.
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  #174  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:33
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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Learn the language(s) and stop complaining, instead of being yet another entitled "expat".
Fully understand the point re. understanding the language. However the way I see it, CH is a small country surrounded by 03 large countries and there is a real risk incase we end up with very open borders. UK did that mistake and saw massive migration from EE and that was a big trigger for Brexit. The negotiations also had this stipulation. So glad that we go back to renegotiate. By the way, I also noticed that CH will release the 1.1B fund to EU.....
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  #175  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:33
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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There might have been floods of workforce from neighboring states, but I think it is because of the salary politics in FR, Germany and Italy. Not CH. So, short-term if you think about it in a long term perspective. Covid definitely changed that, too.
The "salary politics". It influences how much of the cake the workers get. And if the cake gets bigger, who can get more.

In the paper described below some economists argue there are a few major causes of salary stagnation in US (and perhaps to some degree elsewhere):
- weakening trade unions
- interest rates targeting inflation instead of unemployment
- trade deals exposing workers to competition with low-paid workers
- other regulations weakening workers' flexibility to change jobs.

Many of the above are on the agenda of Swiss trade unions and some political parties. The struggle with EU is partly because of the above concerns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/b...class-pay.html
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  #176  
Old 27.05.2021, 10:40
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Re: Swiss-Exit from EU bilateral deals by letting them lapse due to no agreement ?

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I came to Switzerland before 2005 when they opened the doors to Europe and my job prospects surely but slowly went to hell.

The French have invaded Geneva, the Germans Basel and Zurich. Opportunities for native English speakers have crashed in the past decade.

I hope Switzerland joins the UK in existing EU ultimately although by the time they do it will too late for me, although hopefully not for me kids. [who are bilingual should anyone ask, so they have a plan B]
Strange career development. Most professionals either accumulate enough technical experience to become indispensable for projects, move into management or develop a network that make them excel at sales. What happened?

On worrying too much about foreigners, sorry......cannot help but laugh. If you think the the economy is a zero-sum game, whose job you took in first place before 2005? Maybe, it's not a zero-sum game and we (foreigners) create more business opportunities and jobs than the locals can do by themselves.
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  #177  
Old 27.05.2021, 11:44
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

They're over, Switzerland has walked away.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-r...th-eu/46651454
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This is going to come back in two years latest under a new name. Nobody has won anything here.
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No winners here. Just kicking the can down the road, and the can gets rustier.
My feeling also. It smells a lot a bit of posturing like Johnson and Barnier on Brexit in the last stages of the negotiation.

What feels particularly fishy is that Socialists, Liberal-Radicals and Christian Democrats are all unhappy that Switzerland broke the negotiations (but they have 5/7 of the Federal Council, Cassis is the foreign minister... ok maybe I don't fully understand yet how the CH goverment makes decisions but I doubt with just UDC-SVP against they couldn't have moved forward). Also in parliament, if you add up all the parties that complained for the end of the negotiations you get a majority in both Chambers to pass it.

My feeling is that they want to show they are not compromising, then sometimes in the near future this agreement will come back with either a new name or some very minor changes that will be marketed as huge wins on both sides (like in the case of... the UK-EU post brexit deal)... This probably because the pro-agreement party don't want to give too much "firepower" to the UDC-SVP claiming the other parties "sold out" CH to the EU.

Bottom line both parties need to reach an agreement: Switzerland need full access to the Common Market (and to get there you need to accept the 4 freedoms) and the EU can't risk to antagonise Switzerland so that it goes back full "Offshore Country" right in the middle of the Union.

In the short term no big impact in any case.

My 2 cents.
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  #178  
Old 27.05.2021, 12:01
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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What feels particularly fishy is that Socialists, Liberal-Radicals and Christian Democrats are all unhappy that Switzerland broke the negotiations (but they have 5/7 of the Federal Council, Cassis is the foreign minister... ok maybe I don't fully understand yet how the CH goverment makes decisions but I doubt with just UDC-SVP against they couldn't have moved forward).
They are made unanimously, so yes, that would block it.

Tom
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  #179  
Old 27.05.2021, 13:16
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

NZZ reports that Sommaruga/Berset at least wanted to be more diplomatic in communicating the withdrawal. Apparently SVP and FDP were pushing for a "hard" response, and Amherd was the only one who argued for not ending the talks.

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/bundesrat...rag-ld.1627063
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  #180  
Old 27.05.2021, 14:16
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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They are made unanimously, so yes, that would block it.

Tom
Aaah thanks, I thought they voted and then the others had to follow the majority's will.

Thanks!
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