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-   -   Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line? (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/303829-swiss-eu-negotiations-what-s-bottom-line.html)

Karl 26.04.2021 23:17

Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?

Stoker177 27.04.2021 09:09

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl (Post 3300056)
The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?

Slippy slope to EU membership? :rolleyes::D

Sinking 27.04.2021 09:12

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl (Post 3300056)
The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?

Because we don't want salaries to go down and don't want to give out state aid to every european citizen who suddenly decides to move to Switzerland?

I think this is still relevant: https://www.thelocal.ch/20190611/why...-deal-for-now/

Also, this kind of headlines do not help either from the Swiss point of view: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/22...s-switzerland/

Jim2007 27.04.2021 09:34

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoker177 (Post 3300101)
Slippy slope to EU membership? :rolleyes::D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300102)
Because we don't want salaries to go down and don't want to give out state aid to every european citizen who suddenly decides to move to Switzerland?

Hmmm thought the original post might be trolling but after these answers... perhaps not.

st2lemans 27.04.2021 09:37

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300102)
Also, this kind of headlines do not help either from the Swiss point of view: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/22...s-switzerland/

Errors like this don't help, either: "In a 1992 referendum, the Swiss rejected EU membership."

(It was the EEA, not the EU)

Tom

greenmount 27.04.2021 09:39

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 3300108)
Hmmm thought the original post might be trolling but after these answers... .

I still do. I can say with high precision what kind of answers the topic on EU will trigger on EF. And it will be the same people and a few recycled accounts, all over again. :)

OK....next. Enjoy the "debate".

Sinking 27.04.2021 09:41

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3300115)
I still do.

I am sorry, but I genuinely don't get why wanting to protect Swiss wages is considered a joke or anything else.

After all, most expats do move to Switzerland because of its high salaries.

Anyway, I, for one, don't want to end up with salary cuts while having to deal with Swiss prices.

Sultan of Swing 27.04.2021 09:50

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300119)
I am sorry, but I genuinely don't get why wanting to protect Swiss wages is considered a joke or anything else.

After all, most expats do move to Switzerland because of its high salaries.

Anyway, I, for one, don't want to end up with salary cuts while having to deal with Swiss prices.


Swiss prices are on par with Swiss wages, would you consider getting your salary cut if the prices will get cut accordingly?

Sinking 27.04.2021 09:53

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan of Swing (Post 3300128)
Swiss prices are on par with Swiss wages, would you consider getting your salary cut if the prices will get cut accordingly?

Of course!

But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.

Salaries will decrease well before prices go down, trust me.

In the last few years, salaries have not increased, yet health insurance, petrol, etc. prices have gone up.

Middle class is getting poorer, and state aid is increasing year after year, this is not a good sign for anybody involved.

And, if the CO2 law passes, we are in for a nice increase in pretty much everything again.

Axa 27.04.2021 10:09

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300131)
Of course!

But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.

Salaries will decrease well before prices go down, trust me.

In the last few years, salaries have not increased, yet health insurance, petrol, etc. prices have gone up.

Middle class is getting poorer, and state aid is increasing year after year, this is not a good sign for anybody involved.

And, if the CO2 law passes, we are in for a nice increase in pretty much everything again.

Salaries don't increase by magic. Has productivity increased? On Swiss average, yes. But, has it increased in your job? https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...ductivity.html

komsomolez 27.04.2021 10:15

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl (Post 3300056)
The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?

Not sure you can access w/o subscription, but this sheds some light on the issues:

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/rahmenabk...eln-ld.1613991

What is very weird in my view is that there could be such level of "misunderstanding" in what was already agreed. Now Brussels blames Bern for backing out from agreed package, and Bern claims they never had agreed on these points. It feels a bit like the previous negotiators were given a mandate by the Bundesrat that they later realized was too much to ever get a positive public and parlamentarian vote for.

st2lemans 27.04.2021 10:16

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300131)
But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.

They are only high when compared to foreign currencies at current exchange rates.

When I first came here it was 2.3CHF/USD, now it is less than 1!

Tom

LtSoftDrink 27.04.2021 10:29

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3300145)
What is very weird in my view is that there could be such level of "misunderstanding" in what was already agreed. Now Brussels blames Bern for backing out from agreed package, and Bern claims they never had agreed on these points. It feels a bit like the previous negotiators were given a mandate by the Bundesrat that they later realized was too much to ever get a positive public and parlamentarian vote for.

And/or the pro-EU camp thought it could advance its agenda. Even now quite a few dismiss any objection by arguing along the lines of “no choice and otherwise things will turn out worse”.

Sinking 27.04.2021 11:11

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3300146)
They are only high when compared to foreign currencies at current exchange rates.

When I first came here it was 2.3CHF/USD, now it is less than 1!

Tom

When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.

Axa 27.04.2021 11:18

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300175)
When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.

Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.

st2lemans 27.04.2021 11:20

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3300179)
Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.

With a 2500 deductable.

500+ with a 300 deductable (my wife has 300, I have 2500)

Also, depends on the canton.

Tom

st2lemans 27.04.2021 11:21

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinking (Post 3300175)
When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.

Nor have the prices of most other stuff.

Tom

Massa 27.04.2021 11:27

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
‘Some of the current treaties will begin to expire – such as free trade in medical technology. Also, if agreements are not updated – Switzerland will be frozen out of new developments in the EU’s single market, such as electricity trading’.

Source: https://www.worldradio.ch/news/bites...game-underway/

Sinking 27.04.2021 11:37

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3300179)
Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.

Worse conditions, actually.

When I was 20, I had private insurance. Now I have the bare minimum for both mandatory and complimentary insurance. Deductible has not changed (500 chf).

Cheapest mandatory health insurance with 500 chf deductible is about 395 chf/month.

As per prices: 5000 chf/month 20 years ago was way different than, let's say, 6000 chf/month today. Apart from Ticino, apartment prices have skyrocketed!

komsomolez 27.04.2021 11:41

Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?
 
What does have to do with the Swiss/EU negotiations?


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