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Old 26.04.2021, 23:17
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Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:09
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?
Slippy slope to EU membership?
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:12
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?
Because we don't want salaries to go down and don't want to give out state aid to every european citizen who suddenly decides to move to Switzerland?

I think this is still relevant: https://www.thelocal.ch/20190611/why...-deal-for-now/

Also, this kind of headlines do not help either from the Swiss point of view: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/22...s-switzerland/

Last edited by Sinking; 27.04.2021 at 09:23.
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:34
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Slippy slope to EU membership?
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Because we don't want salaries to go down and don't want to give out state aid to every european citizen who suddenly decides to move to Switzerland?
Hmmm thought the original post might be trolling but after these answers... perhaps not.
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:37
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Also, this kind of headlines do not help either from the Swiss point of view: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/22...s-switzerland/
Errors like this don't help, either: "In a 1992 referendum, the Swiss rejected EU membership."

(It was the EEA, not the EU)

Tom
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:39
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Hmmm thought the original post might be trolling but after these answers... .
I still do. I can say with high precision what kind of answers the topic on EU will trigger on EF. And it will be the same people and a few recycled accounts, all over again.

OK....next. Enjoy the "debate".
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:41
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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I still do.
I am sorry, but I genuinely don't get why wanting to protect Swiss wages is considered a joke or anything else.

After all, most expats do move to Switzerland because of its high salaries.

Anyway, I, for one, don't want to end up with salary cuts while having to deal with Swiss prices.
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:50
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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I am sorry, but I genuinely don't get why wanting to protect Swiss wages is considered a joke or anything else.

After all, most expats do move to Switzerland because of its high salaries.

Anyway, I, for one, don't want to end up with salary cuts while having to deal with Swiss prices.

Swiss prices are on par with Swiss wages, would you consider getting your salary cut if the prices will get cut accordingly?
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Old 27.04.2021, 09:53
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Swiss prices are on par with Swiss wages, would you consider getting your salary cut if the prices will get cut accordingly?
Of course!

But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.

Salaries will decrease well before prices go down, trust me.

In the last few years, salaries have not increased, yet health insurance, petrol, etc. prices have gone up.

Middle class is getting poorer, and state aid is increasing year after year, this is not a good sign for anybody involved.

And, if the CO2 law passes, we are in for a nice increase in pretty much everything again.
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Old 27.04.2021, 10:09
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Of course!

But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.

Salaries will decrease well before prices go down, trust me.

In the last few years, salaries have not increased, yet health insurance, petrol, etc. prices have gone up.

Middle class is getting poorer, and state aid is increasing year after year, this is not a good sign for anybody involved.

And, if the CO2 law passes, we are in for a nice increase in pretty much everything again.
Salaries don't increase by magic. Has productivity increased? On Swiss average, yes. But, has it increased in your job? https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...ductivity.html
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Old 27.04.2021, 10:15
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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The recent news about the failure of the Swiss/EU negotiations seems to be 3 sticking points:
1) Wage protection
2) State aid
3)European citizenship directive


I cannot find a news source in English or German that explains the bottom line why Switzerland doesn't want to agree on these points. Does anyone have a handle on the low-down... why does Switzerland feel threatened by these issues?
Not sure you can access w/o subscription, but this sheds some light on the issues:

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/rahmenabk...eln-ld.1613991

What is very weird in my view is that there could be such level of "misunderstanding" in what was already agreed. Now Brussels blames Bern for backing out from agreed package, and Bern claims they never had agreed on these points. It feels a bit like the previous negotiators were given a mandate by the Bundesrat that they later realized was too much to ever get a positive public and parlamentarian vote for.
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Old 27.04.2021, 10:16
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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But this is Switzerland, the land of high prices.
They are only high when compared to foreign currencies at current exchange rates.

When I first came here it was 2.3CHF/USD, now it is less than 1!

Tom
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Old 27.04.2021, 10:29
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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What is very weird in my view is that there could be such level of "misunderstanding" in what was already agreed. Now Brussels blames Bern for backing out from agreed package, and Bern claims they never had agreed on these points. It feels a bit like the previous negotiators were given a mandate by the Bundesrat that they later realized was too much to ever get a positive public and parlamentarian vote for.
And/or the pro-EU camp thought it could advance its agenda. Even now quite a few dismiss any objection by arguing along the lines of “no choice and otherwise things will turn out worse”.
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:11
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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They are only high when compared to foreign currencies at current exchange rates.

When I first came here it was 2.3CHF/USD, now it is less than 1!

Tom
When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:18
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.
Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:20
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.
With a 2500 deductable.

500+ with a 300 deductable (my wife has 300, I have 2500)

Also, depends on the canton.

Tom
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:21
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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When I first started paying health insurance, I paid 180/month. 25 years later, I pay 500.

My salary has not increased that much.
Nor have the prices of most other stuff.

Tom
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:27
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

‘Some of the current treaties will begin to expire – such as free trade in medical technology. Also, if agreements are not updated – Switzerland will be frozen out of new developments in the EU’s single market, such as electricity trading’.

Source: https://www.worldradio.ch/news/bites...game-underway/
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:37
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

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Are the the same franchise conditions? A 500 CHF health insurance is not the cheapest one, it comes with some extra features.

The basic ones are ~250-300 CHF.
Worse conditions, actually.

When I was 20, I had private insurance. Now I have the bare minimum for both mandatory and complimentary insurance. Deductible has not changed (500 chf).

Cheapest mandatory health insurance with 500 chf deductible is about 395 chf/month.

As per prices: 5000 chf/month 20 years ago was way different than, let's say, 6000 chf/month today. Apart from Ticino, apartment prices have skyrocketed!
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Old 27.04.2021, 11:41
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Re: Swiss/EU negotiations: what's the bottom line?

What does have to do with the Swiss/EU negotiations?
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