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View Poll Results: On which initiatives will you vote yes
Popular initiative “For clean drinking water and healthy food" 19 45.24%
Popular initiative “For a Switzerland without artificial pesticides” 18 42.86%
COVID-19 Act 21 50.00%
CO2 Act 16 38.10%
Federal Act on Police Measures to Combat Terrorism 13 30.95%
None of the above 11 26.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

 
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  #441  
Old 22.06.2021, 20:21
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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I think you slightly misunderstood that. CO2 is a subject that needs tackling. What she means is that she realizes that the offered way is not accepted, they have to find new ways where all (okay the majority) agrees to. So no, we will not vote about the same thing but about other solutions for the same problem.
Co2 certainly needs tackling but slapping a fuel levy and taxing the working stiff won't evaporate those Co2 not now not in the future.

If we want to tackle Co2 we need to rethink the whole global economy from 0. Simply start over. Forget everything we know on global commerce and transport. No tax or windmill will change that.

The socialists are delusional as always, they want to show themselves as progressive and thinking about the environment yet they don't even want to scrape the surface of the problem.

Do we really want to save the planet? Than ban the thousands Ryan Air flights flying for 19 EUR and getting subsidies from government so they promote weekend tourism, ban those Disney cruises wasting hundreds of tons of fuel each day so people can experience being drunk in the middle of the ocean, ban avocados from Chile and other unnecessary foods traveling from one side of the world to the other.

With these 3 measures you will cut 80% of Co2 emissions in 1 day.

Now that will be effective wouldn't be? We won't have jobs anymore but at least we will breathe clean air. Is somebody ready to do that sacrifice?

So adding 35 cents at the gas pump in Switzerland certainly will do absolutely nothing about tackling Co2, we need a joint radical effort of most governments in the world, but that simply won't happen.

So instead we will tax the common people and spend those taxes on alternative fuel sources which in no way can support the industrialization beast we created.

We need to rethink the way we live.
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  #442  
Old 22.06.2021, 20:24
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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So adding 35 cents at the gas pump in Switzerland certainly will do absolutely nothing about tackling Co2, we need a joint radical effort of most governments in the world, but that simply won't happen.
I guess it was like 12 rappen but if it's 35 better. Less people on the road. So, who's against that?

The start over from zero is an old dream. People went to America thinking about that, then aimed for the jungle of Central and South America and the answer wasn't there too. It seems the problem is in the dream of considering a start over as a solution. People with 3+ divorces can attest it.
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  #443  
Old 22.06.2021, 20:25
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Co2 certainly needs tackling but slapping a fuel levy and taxing the working stiff won't evaporate those Co2 not now not in the future.

If we want to tackle Co2 we need to rethink the whole global economy from 0. Simply start over. Forget everything we know on global commerce and transport. No tax or windmill will change that.

The socialists are delusional as always, they want to show themselves as progressive and thinking about the environment yet they don't even want to scrape the surface of the problem.

Do we really want to save the planet? Than ban the thousands Ryan Air flights flying for 19 EUR and getting subsidies from government so they promote weekend tourism, ban those Disney cruises wasting hundreds of tons of fuel each day so people can experience being drunk in the middle of the ocean, ban avocados from Chile and other unnecessary foods traveling from one side of the world to the other.

With these 3 measures you will cut 80% of Co2 emissions in 1 day.

Now that will be effective wouldn't be? We won't have jobs anymore but at least we will breathe clean air. Is somebody ready to do that sacrifice?

So adding 35 cents at the gas pump in Switzerland certainly will do absolutely nothing about tackling Co2, we need a joint radical effort of most governments in the world, but that simply won't happen.

So instead we will tax the common people and spend those taxes on alternative fuel sources which in no way can support the industrialization beast we created.

We need to rethink the way we live.
I agree.

Except the avocados - I am nor ready to let go. Yet.
  #444  
Old 22.06.2021, 20:36
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Co2 certainly needs tackling but slapping a fuel levy and taxing the working stiff won't evaporate those Co2 not now not in the future.

If we want to tackle Co2 we need to rethink the whole global economy from 0. Simply start over. Forget everything we know on global commerce and transport. No tax or windmill will change that.

The socialists are delusional as always, they want to show themselves as progressive and thinking about the environment yet they don't even want to scrape the surface of the problem.

Do we really want to save the planet? Than ban the thousands Ryan Air flights flying for 19 EUR and getting subsidies from government so they promote weekend tourism, ban those Disney cruises wasting hundreds of tons of fuel each day so people can experience being drunk in the middle of the ocean, ban avocados from Chile and other unnecessary foods traveling from one side of the world to the other.

With these 3 measures you will cut 80% of Co2 emissions in 1 day.

Now that will be effective wouldn't be? We won't have jobs anymore but at least we will breathe clean air. Is somebody ready to do that sacrifice?

So adding 35 cents at the gas pump in Switzerland certainly will do absolutely nothing about tackling Co2, we need a joint radical effort of most governments in the world, but that simply won't happen.

So instead we will tax the common people and spend those taxes on alternative fuel sources which in no way can support the industrialization beast we created.

We need to rethink the way we live.
Facts please.

A bit more than 70% of global carbon emission come from the energy sector (powergen, heating, transport). Aviation is 2-3% of emissions. Shipping is similar.

The answer to most of the problem is electrification with renewable and nuclear power, and storage of electricity and carbon.

Last edited by komsomolez; 22.06.2021 at 20:50.
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  #445  
Old 22.06.2021, 20:58
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Interestingly enough, the young appear to have tipped the scale for the CO2 law.
The rest of the population was pretty much split 50/50 (with a slight overweight of Yes), the young (age 18-34) said No decisively and decided for everybody.

Assuming the poll by Tagesanzeiger (paywall) can be trusted. The overall result is pretty much the same as the actual vote, IMHO that gives it significant credibility.

Interesting indeed!
  #446  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:16
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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ban avocados from Chile and other unnecessary foods traveling from one side of the world to the other.
.
The problem with food emissions is meat and dairy not transport.

1 kg of Avocados releases 2.5 kg CO2 (yes at the bad end for plant produce)
1kg of beef is 60kg. Swiss beef will probably be more than eg US imported beef because of high Land area per cow here.

Food being local is an irrelevance environmentally.

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
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  #447  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:19
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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The problem with food emissions is meat and dairy not transport.

1 kg of Avocados releases 2.5 kg CO2.
1kg of beef is 60kg.

Food being local is an irrelevance environmentally.
I'd much rather eat 1 kg of beef than 1 kg of avocados.

End of.

Tom
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  #448  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:23
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

If I could eat only one food item for the rest of my life it'd probably be avocado.
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  #449  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:27
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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If I could eat only one food item for the rest of my life it'd probably be avocado.
That.

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I'd much rather eat 1 kg of beef than 1 kg of avocados.

End of.

Tom
A kilo of avocados sounds like heaven.
  #450  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:33
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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A kilo of avocados sounds like heaven.
When COOP has the rebate of all you can fit in a fruit bag for 10-12 CHF, it's like 2 kilos of avocados. Sometimes heaven is cheap
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  #451  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:43
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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If I could eat only one food item for the rest of my life it'd probably be avocado.
And for me it would be beef.

Tom
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  #452  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:43
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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If I could eat only one food item for the rest of my life it'd probably be avocado.
You wouldn't be able to consume enough due to sensory-specific satiety.

Besides, I believe the only single food source that one could live off for an extended period is human breast milk. Possibly the next best thing is the humble potato (contains all essential amino acids unlike avocados).
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  #453  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:49
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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You wouldn't be unable to consume enough due to sensory-specific satiety.

Besides, I believe the only single food source that one could live off for an extended period is human breast milk. Possibly the next best thing is the humble potato (contains all essential amino acids unlike avocados).
Reminds me, I rarely eat boiled potatoes, mostly because for me they have an odd flavour. They seem to have different varieties here than in the UK.
  #454  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:57
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Reminds me, I rarely eat boiled potatoes, mostly because for me they have an odd flavour. They seem to have different varieties here than in the UK.
I find that too. I really miss the Jersey Royals. The best boiled potatoes I've ever eaten. For me they are that good that with simply butter and salt you arguably don't need anything else.

Also miss Maris Pipers. Every Christmas I hunt for something suitable for roast potatoes but never managed to produce anything like what a Maris Piper delivers.
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Old 22.06.2021, 22:06
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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You wouldn't be able to consume enough due to sensory-specific satiety.

Besides, I believe the only single food source that one could live off for an extended period is human breast milk. Possibly the next best thing is the humble potato (contains all essential amino acids unlike avocados).
Bananas apparently. I once heard that if you don't know what to feed to a baby one can't go wrong with bananas, they cover most their needs.
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  #456  
Old 23.06.2021, 07:37
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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When COOP has the rebate of all you can fit in a fruit bag for 10-12 CHF, it's like 2 kilos of avocados. Sometimes heaven is cheap
I gotta investigate this! Coop has always been too expensive for me.

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You wouldn't be able to consume enough due to sensory-specific satiety.

Besides, I believe the only single food source that one could live off for an extended period is human breast milk. Possibly the next best thing is the humble potato (contains all essential amino acids unlike avocados).
The satiety sensory thing doesn't seem to work for me with some stuff.

Grew up on humble boiled taters and they were odd tasting, too, sometimes. As we say back home "Ain't Mardigras every day". So one can do wonders to restitute humble taters glory - chives! Melted butter. Butter-sherry-vinagrette-bacon dressing! Fresh herbs! Or, caramerized onions or just fry them onions crispy. The best potato I ate was probably in the UK and Vegas.

I totally agree on bm. I am proud of having invested in extended nursing and child-lead weaning. It is work. I think people will eat something like that in 100yr in adult age.

How did we get from politics to food and boobs again?
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  #457  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:21
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Also miss Maris Pipers. Every Christmas I hunt for something suitable for roast potatoes but never managed to produce anything like what a Maris Piper delivers.
Have you tried the Lidl baking potatoes in the big string bags? These are the most similar to maris pipers and make great roast potatoes or mash.

Did you know that Maris Pipers were created at the Plant Breeding institute at Maris Lane, Cambridge?
The institute no longer exists and has been replaced by a Waitrose!
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  #458  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:35
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Have you tried the Lidl baking potatoes in the big string bags? These are the most similar to maris pipers and make great roast potatoes or mash.

Did you know that Maris Pipers were created at the Plant Breeding institute at Maris Lane, Cambridge?
The institute no longer exists and has been replaced by a Waitrose!
I didn't try those yet but I see they are described as baked potatoes and this aligns with my experience. I often had the best outcome with these. Typically, I found them to be the Victoria variety and the results were reasonably good.

Nothing compares to the fluffy interior and glass-like exterior that the Maris Piper produces. Didn't know about their origin. I might have to grow my own one day
  #459  
Old 23.06.2021, 10:24
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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You wouldn't be able to consume enough due to sensory-specific satiety.
Does this applies to beer and wine?
  #460  
Old 23.06.2021, 10:50
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Does this applies to beer and wine?
Depends if you have an addiction prone traits. It does apply if you don't get addicted, you just get bored, really. We are not wired to eat one thing, we are wired to crave diversity. I do not think the habits are kept long term if one does not have an addiction trait.
 




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