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View Poll Results: On which initiatives will you vote yes
Popular initiative “For clean drinking water and healthy food" 19 45.24%
Popular initiative “For a Switzerland without artificial pesticides” 18 42.86%
COVID-19 Act 21 50.00%
CO2 Act 16 38.10%
Federal Act on Police Measures to Combat Terrorism 13 30.95%
None of the above 11 26.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 01.05.2021, 15:33
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Coffee and chocolate are hardly local, are they?


It amazes me that, despite the internet, TV and so on, people really have no idea where food comes from.
I used lettuce as an example for a reason ...

What amazes me, is people who think that, because it's organic, it must be good for the environment.

Those are the same people who buy strawberries in the middle of Winter.

Anyhow, I am lucky enough that there are some amazing farmers' markets around where I live, so problem solved (except for cacao).

I know what I will be voting on June 13th.
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  #42  
Old 01.05.2021, 15:57
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Classic error. Transport emissions are essentially irrelevant compared to the emissions involved in growing food.
Except for air-freighted food.

Examples include mange-tout beans, or anything else similar from Kenya and other quickly-perishable, out-of-season green produce.

Lidl, at least (maybe others but I do not believe so) has a policy of no food being air-freighted.

The biggest reason for buying local is the freshness and better taste.

I've written this before but I always remember the first apple I bought in Switzerland tasted like one just picked from a tree - a taste memory I had held on to from my childhood.
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  #43  
Old 01.05.2021, 22:22
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

I will probably vote no to trinkwasserinitiative because I don't think the requirement makes sense.

If you want less livestock because livestock is bad for the environment, then tax CO2 emissions of livestock.
If you want to put a CO2 tax on soy feed from countries that deforest, by all means, make an initiative about that.

But forcing farmers to make all their own feed goes beyond all that and forces inefficient behaviours.

In Switzerland we have high value added products like cheese and meat, and if importing feed from countries with large-scale mechanized agriculture who suck at making cheese allows us to make that beyond the capability of our territory, export it back to them, and make money, it's good business.

I could understand if somebody is against that as well, and would want to force local swiss production for ideological reasons (zero-km agriculture all around), but this initiative goes way beyond even that. A farmer would not even be able to choose to just focus 100% on an egg business on his small farm, buying feed from the farming cooperative.
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  #44  
Old 02.05.2021, 09:09
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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by not voting it be vote given to the winner . Or none of the above you expect to have "maybe" option and see which party offers more for you vote ?
"None of the above" = 5x NO!

Tom
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  #45  
Old 02.05.2021, 09:20
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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How's about when the organic produce items are individually plastic wrapped?:



That’s nothing

In many Spanish supermarkets you’re not allowed to touch fruit or vegetables with your bare hands . They provide disposable gloves for that .

Maybe in COVID times there is some justification for that . But this has been happening in normal times too .

Some people have an irrational phobia of germs .
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  #46  
Old 02.05.2021, 09:35
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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"None of the above" = 5x NO!

Tom

Oddly I am with you on this, but doubt my right to vote will come through by then.
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  #47  
Old 02.05.2021, 13:55
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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How's about when the organic produce items are individually plastic wrapped?:
[image snipped]
Why aren't all fruit plastic-wrapped?
I don't think I've ever seen Avocados wrapped. Or single "Peperoni" (bell peppers).

That leads to the suggestion that there may be specific reasons.

For one, the plastic wrap helps reduce food waste during transport by protecting the cucumber, the bigger the distance the bigger the reduction, up to 50%. Plus, they keep longer thanks to the wrap, another aid in reducing food waste.

If they've been raised in a greenhouse, the need to heat may cause a multitude of the environmental cost of the wrap you're so concerned about. But that's invisible, so people dont' care.

If you're really that bothered by the plasticwrap, wait until they're in season and produced locally. This applies in general, not just to cucumbers.
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  #48  
Old 02.05.2021, 14:00
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Usually, you get organic fruit and vegetables all wrapped up like Christmas trees.

"Normal" fruits and vegetable are rarely sold in packaging (except maybe the odd 6 pack of apples).

I am very happy that, maybe thanks to Covid, less people seem to be sneezing/touching/smelling fruits and vegetables before buying them!
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  #49  
Old 02.05.2021, 14:21
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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"None of the above" = 5x NO!

Tom
your vote is your right

saying No to COVID-19 Act - please let us know what is the reasons - I'd live to hear it

Let's just say what it is about for these not involved

"It covers measures that the Federal Council and Parliament still need to apply in order to manage the pandemic and the economic crisis. In particular, it regulates various forms of financial aid granted to individuals and businesses. The most important of these are payments for short-time work, compensation for loss of income, assistance in cases of hardship, and support for cultural and sports organisations. The Act is subject to a time limit."
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  #50  
Old 02.05.2021, 15:44
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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I am with the farmers on this one.

If it passes, not only will prices go up but we will probably end up importing more products ... all those "bio" "organic" and other "wonderful" stuff coming from countries where organic is just a nice word used to sell at higher prices.

I am always baffled when I see people swearing by organic food and vote green party when they do their weekly grocery shopping. Very few items are from Switzerland, but apparently it's ok to buy organic lettuce coming from Spain or organic beens from Turkey. Maybe they are flown into Switzerland by travelling pigeons?
I am too.

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Historical background:

That‘s the farmers‘ vote. They make up a small percentage of the population but a very vocal one, and one that has been and still is over-represented in Parliament, largely by the SVP (which started out as the BGB, the Bauern- und Gewerbepartei). This is why the Agrarpolitik 22 bill failed to make it through Parliament, though the reforms it proposed would have been quite gentle.

Farming is a very traditional business in Switzerland as farms are hardly ever for sale. Instead, they are passed on over generations. They also tend to merge, meaning there are even fewer available for people with less traditional ideas.
And it would be nice if it stayed that way if you ask me.
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  #51  
Old 02.05.2021, 19:07
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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I am too.



And it would be nice if it stayed that way if you ask me.
it's not to stop any farmer from producing anything - it's about not subsidising it anymore - while provide more support to these that are wiling to change .

it's our taxes - and my tax decision would be with these supporting healthy environment than these maximising their own gains.

Should farming be not prosperous business I'd expect to see farms on sale - never seen it happening
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  #52  
Old 02.05.2021, 19:32
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Switzerland’s agricultural sector costs the country CHF 19.9 billion while contributing only CHF 3.4 billion, concludes a study published by the think tank Avenir Suisse.

The CHF 19.9 billion cost is made up of tax breaks and direct federal and cantonal payments to the sector (4.9b), the cost of artificially inflated consumer prices due to import restrictions (4.6b CHF), environmental damage (7.3b), and the cost to export businesses (3.1b) from agricultural trade restrictions.

https://lenews.ch/2018/09/13/swiss-a...ding-to-study/
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  #53  
Old 02.05.2021, 19:59
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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To be fair, if the farmer's association hadn't been so obstructive to reasonable ways to regulate the use of pesticides, there might not be these initiatives. I am for using as little pesticides as needed, but I think zero is too extreme. I would agree with a ban of prophylactic antibiotics.

Independent of Switzerland's decisions on farming, I believe it is impossible to feed 7-8 billion people based on "bio" and "organic" farming. The answer may be GMO rather than pesticides though.
Your first paragraph is what I meant by farming being a conservative business here. Only about one-sixth of Swiss farms are organic so far. One of the brightest guys I know left a well-paid international job to work as a farm hand on a farm that goes way beyond organic; they‘re trying to reverse the degradation of the soil that comes with conventional agriculture and turn the land itself into a carbon sink by adding more layers (does the word mulching exist in English?). It was the first I‘d heard of such processes, and they immediately made sense to me. I wish we had more such people. Soil degradation is a problem not widely known outside agriculture, let alone discussed.

As for your second: we depend heavily on imports as it is. Going pesticide-free would lower yields for some crops. It would also make yields more variable. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05956-1 OTOH, the benefits of organic farming for biodiversity are well known. Biodiversity is another big issue that few know about and almost nobody talks about. Too abstract? We‘re not the single most important species on the planet but a small part of something much bigger than us, something that sustains us and that our remote ancestors were in awe of. We, on the other hand, are in the middle of a man-made mass extinction. The loss of insects etc. has consequences further up the food chain. Our kids may live to see them. I sincerely hope not.

GMOs... I dunno. The legal sequels of having a neighbour‘s GMO seeds wafted over to an innocent bystander‘s field can be made so devastating by ruthless corporate lawyers that personally, I‘d avoid the stuff for that reason alone. In that case, I‘m all for „conservative“!
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  #54  
Old 02.05.2021, 20:01
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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it's not to stop any farmer from producing anything - it's about not subsidising it anymore - while provide more support to these that are wiling to change .

it's our taxes - and my tax decision would be with these supporting healthy environment than these maximising their own gains.

Should farming be not prosperous business I'd expect to see farms on sale - never seen it happening
I see your point but I think we're already buying products from other countries which are either subsidising their agricultural sector or benefit from EU agriculture subsidies (which btw are usually given for big farms that usually have the same practices)...
I'm not sure what's to be done tbh. But maintaining this sector is strategic for a country imo.
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  #55  
Old 02.05.2021, 20:06
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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So, instead of buying local produce, we should buy imported ones?
Obviously not. But paradoxically, a canned Italian tomato produced in season and kept for a while can end up with a lower environmental footprint than a local one from a greenhouse. It‘s all very confusing. I like the WWF‘s „Einkaufsratgeber“. They have several, from veggie seasons to which label means what.
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  #56  
Old 02.05.2021, 20:13
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Switzerland’s agricultural sector costs the country CHF 19.9 billion while contributing only CHF 3.4 billion, concludes a study published by the think tank Avenir Suisse.

The CHF 19.9 billion cost is made up of tax breaks and direct federal and cantonal payments to the sector (4.9b), the cost of artificially inflated consumer prices due to import restrictions (4.6b CHF), environmental damage (7.3b), and the cost to export businesses (3.1b) from agricultural trade restrictions.

https://lenews.ch/2018/09/13/swiss-a...ding-to-study/
Avenir Suisse may know about costs, but about farming? I’ve always thought that import restrictions during season (e.g. for Valais abricots) make sense in terms of securing our own food supply, and would probably get confirmed in a vote. Historically, food has never been as cheap as it is today, in terms of the percentage of our income typically spent on it. It‘s not as though we couldn‘t afford it. But I do agree (heartily!) that subsidising any unnecessary poisoning of our environment is not in the best interest of taxpayers or consumers.
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  #57  
Old 02.05.2021, 20:26
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Your first paragraph is what I meant by farming being a conservative business here. Only about one-sixth of Swiss farms are organic so far. One of the brightest guys I know left a well-paid international job to work as a farm hand on a farm that goes way beyond organic; they‘re trying to reverse the degradation of the soil that comes with conventional agriculture and turn the land itself into a carbon sink by adding more layers (does the word mulching exist in English?). It was the first I‘d heard of such processes, and they immediately made sense to me. I wish we had more such people. Soil degradation is a problem not widely known outside agriculture, let alone discussed.
Yes, it's an English word!

But specifically, for livestock farming, herbal leys are becoming common instead of fertilizers, and mulches to improve soil structure and fertility, nutritional value of the the pasture and grazing livestock health.
It's a mixture of grasses, herbs and legumes.

Those people who listen to BBC Radio 4 Archers. the farming soap opera, will know all about them!
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  #58  
Old 02.05.2021, 21:26
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Yes, it's an English word!

But specifically, for livestock farming, herbal leys are becoming common instead of fertilizers, and mulches to improve soil structure and fertility, nutritional value of the the pasture and grazing livestock health.
It's a mixture of grasses, herbs and legumes.

Those people who listen to BBC Radio 4 Archers. the farming soap opera, will know all about them!
I'd join here B.Gates and D.Attenborough and reduce consumption when introducing more bio diversity
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  #59  
Old 07.05.2021, 11:56
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Ok another poll from SSR:

https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/12176...ndage-ssr.html

- Clean Drinking Water Y54 N40 Don't know 6
- No pesticides Y55 N42 Don't know 3
- CO2 Y60 N35 DNK 5
- Covid Law Y67 N27 DNK 6
- Security Law Y67 N24 DNK 9

Last three seems a lock for the yes, the first two the one on the pesticides has less undecided and more yes, however you still have the "Majority of Cantons" that remains a ?.
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  #60  
Old 07.05.2021, 12:17
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Ok another poll from SSR:

https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/12176...ndage-ssr.html

- Clean Drinking Water Y54 N40 Don't know 6
- No pesticides Y55 N42 Don't know 3
- CO2 Y60 N35 DNK 5
- Covid Law Y67 N27 DNK 6
- Security Law Y67 N24 DNK 9

Last three seems a lock for the yes, the first two the one on the pesticides has less undecided and more yes, however you still have the "Majority of Cantons" that remains a ?.
most for Yes are the ones that read what the vote is about , most of No are those that do not read the details, do not care or are famers/relatives/dependant and do not know really couldn't care less until the last day

it's exactly as I expected - I guess there be more about cantons majority than people majority
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