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View Poll Results: On which initiatives will you vote yes
Popular initiative “For clean drinking water and healthy food" 19 45.24%
Popular initiative “For a Switzerland without artificial pesticides” 18 42.86%
COVID-19 Act 21 50.00%
CO2 Act 16 38.10%
Federal Act on Police Measures to Combat Terrorism 13 30.95%
None of the above 11 26.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 07.05.2021, 12:43
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

the yes % in such votes often erodes with time as people become more attentive to possible negative consequences and when in doubt will go for the status quo, when they have the pen in hand.

Also the cantonal majority is doubtful given that many smaller cantons are also more rural farming cantons.

So I would not build expectations either way.
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  #62  
Old 07.05.2021, 13:00
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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the yes % in such votes often erodes with time as people become more attentive to possible negative consequences and when in doubt will go for the status quo, when they have the pen in hand.

Also the cantonal majority is doubtful given that many smaller cantons are also more rural farming cantons.

So I would not build expectations either way.
I agree on the first 2, the CO2 Law seems to collect more consensus overall
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  #63  
Old 07.05.2021, 22:55
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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To be fair, if the farmer's association hadn't been so obstructive to reasonable ways to regulate the use of pesticides, there might not be these initiatives. I am for using as little pesticides as needed, but I think zero is too extreme. I would agree with a ban of prophylactic antibiotics.

Independent of Switzerland's decisions on farming, I believe it is impossible to feed 7-8 billion people based on "bio" and "organic" farming. The answer may be GMO rather than pesticides though.

Could I vote, and without having read much about the CO2 law, I would say:

No
No
Yes
Tentative yes
No
Just watching Arena. The guy from the farmers' association confirms what I wrote about above - hopeless. Parmelin looks lost. Doesn't change my view on the initiative, but the status quo is also unacceptable.
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  #64  
Old 07.05.2021, 23:06
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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I agree on the first 2, the CO2 Law seems to collect more consensus overall
yeah I was referring to the farming initiatives.

The CO2 law is a referendum against something that comes from government and parliament. It was approved during the pre-covid peak of climate activism, but it was still voted with participation of bourgeoisie parties who keep the economy at the forefront, so the moderation is there. Imho, it has a good chance of passing as many people don't like the hit in the pocket but accept that it's probably necessary. And paying a bit more for a ticket to a warm place is not nearly as difficult to digest for boomers as e.g. laws that affect their soon-to-come retirement heavily.
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  #65  
Old 07.05.2021, 23:33
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Yes
Undecided
No
No
No
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  #66  
Old 07.05.2021, 23:47
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Yes
Undecided
No
No
No
Interesting. Why no on Covid? Gut feel for me would be no b/c of the ex-post, but fine to legitimize monies for affected sectors. The pesticide initiative incl. imports sounds crazy to me, so if any sympathy for the first two, then the first.
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  #67  
Old 09.05.2021, 18:04
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Hilarious. Now the bio farmers turn against the agro initiatives as they fear their business model is at risk.
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  #68  
Old 09.05.2021, 21:08
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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What amazes me, is people who think that, because it's organic, it must be good for the environment. Those are the same people who buy strawberries in the middle of Winter.
They are very much not. Those strawberries are anyway never organic.

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Usually, you get organic fruit and vegetables all wrapped up like Christmas trees.
Because the supermarkets want to be able to clearly identify them and charge the higher price. Annoys the hell out of those who buy them. Although some stuff now has “Bio” sprayed on (at least in Lidl) to get round that.
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  #69  
Old 09.05.2021, 21:56
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Just watching Arena. The guy from the farmers' association confirms what I wrote about above - hopeless. Parmelin looks lost. Doesn't change my view on the initiative, but the status quo is also unacceptable.
To my mind, the pesticide initiative goes too far. OTOH, it‘s not going to be accepted in the majority of cantons. (Same for Trinkwasserinitiative, to my chagrin.) And I do agree that the status quo is dismal. So it‘s yes to both from me.

As for the CO2 law: the „hit in the pocket“ might be there for some of you, since -obviously - expats are often frequent flyers. On the other hand, the costs are probably not more than a couple of good meals at a restaurant. The likes of me (car-free, non-flyer) would profit. So would most folks, actually. It takes a pretty big carbon footprint not to. However, I harbour a sinking feeling that many of those same folks will vote no for ideological reasons: fear of deep state, refusal to believe climate change is anything but a conspiracy, mistrust and resentment of elites (scientists and politicians, in this case), the SVP party line, and so on.

I strongly believe the CO2 law is necessary. Don’t get me wrong: I’m all for personal responsibility. It’s just that sometimes, it’s not enough, even if a majority of people would be willing to do more. E.g. when our Stockwerkeigentümergemeinschaft was due to replace the oil heating, there was one single party who intended to sell and wasn‘t willing to face the upfront costs of a heat pump. As owners among you will know, heat pumps are not more expensive in the long term, but they require an initial investment. This one party dug in their heels and insisted on replacing the boiler, cheapest in the short term but effectively aborting any discussion of smarter alternatives, since a majority decided it wasn’t important. We Swiss are soooooo consensus-oriented... It seems this is a widespread problem in Stockwerkeigentümergemeinschaften, making them very resistant to reforms. Since this form of ownership is increasing, it makes sense to nudge Eigentümergemeinschaften.
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  #70  
Old 09.05.2021, 22:00
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Hilarious. Now the bio farmers turn against the agro initiatives as they fear their business model is at risk.
Actually, Bio Suisse only opposes the Trinkwasserinitiative; they are in favour of the Pestizidinitiative. That opposition was hotly debated.

The Kleinbauern-Vereinigung (kleinbauern.ch), less driven by their own economical interests, are in favour of both initiatives.
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  #71  
Old 17.05.2021, 23:11
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

The FDP Zug says yes to the Trinkwasserinitiative: https://www.fdp-zg.ch/
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  #72  
Old 18.05.2021, 08:00
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

I just look at what the SVP tell you to vote and do the opposite. Saves a lot of reading.
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  #73  
Old 18.05.2021, 08:40
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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I just look at what the SVP PS and Greens tell you to vote and do the opposite. Saves a lot of reading.
FTFY.

Tom
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  #74  
Old 18.05.2021, 08:58
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

No
No
No
Yes
Maybe

The first three need to be rethought.
The COVID one would tempt me to vote No to swing the control to the Kantons but that would be just for shits and giggles.
The terrorist one I am actually undecided on.
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  #75  
Old 18.05.2021, 09:17
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No
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  #76  
Old 18.05.2021, 09:48
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

2x:

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.

Tom
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  #77  
Old 18.05.2021, 09:59
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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2x:

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.

Tom
The usual Tom vote. Unless No means Yes.
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  #78  
Old 18.05.2021, 10:02
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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The usual Tom vote. Unless No means Yes.
We need a hashtag: #TomToo?
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  #79  
Old 18.05.2021, 11:15
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

Covid law: I haven't looked into the details yet, but I just read this in the newspaper:

"If this law were to be accepted, intensive tracing of contacts within the population and discrimination against unvaccinated people would be legalised," fears the committee that launched the referendum. The Covid law does indeed endorse the practice of quarantining contacts of infected people, and it provides for the creation of a health certificate. The committee fears dictatorship: at least the people have the opportunity to vote.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/loi-co...e-133768313528

If this is indeed true, I am voting NO.
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  #80  
Old 18.05.2021, 11:28
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Re: Vote June 13th 2021

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Covid law: I haven't looked into the details yet, but I just read this in the newspaper:

"If this law were to be accepted, intensive tracing of contacts within the population and discrimination against unvaccinated people would be legalised," fears the committee that launched the referendum. The Covid law does indeed endorse the practice of quarantining contacts of infected people, and it provides for the creation of a health certificate. The committee fears dictatorship: at least the people have the opportunity to vote.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/loi-co...e-133768313528

If this is indeed true, I am voting NO.
"Fears"? So it is supposition?

Let's be honest, we need a certificate and if you choose to not get vaccinated, you can stay in the slow lane. I'll be in the queue with the certificate
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