Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 03.05.2021, 10:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,772
Groaned at 88 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 11,723 Times in 4,760 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
I think the best thing would be for awareness raised among tourists to not give any money to beggars. Signs in main areas etc. Also, a small police patrol that goes at random intervals down the main areas checking permits etc.
Yes. I remember arriving in a central railway station in another country, and as I exited the building, being given a flyer by police wardens, in many languages, telling me not to give to beggars, and warning me of pick-pocketing, as those two often go hand in hand.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 03.05.2021, 10:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,668
Groaned at 260 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 3,313 Times in 1,182 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
What difference does it make if the signs are informing and educating tourists or locals? Ideally no-one, including locals, should be giving money to street beggars.
Yes, but you wrote tourists and I am simply pointing it out that it is not just tourists who give them money ...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Susie-Q for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 03.05.2021, 10:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,182
Groaned at 1,178 Times in 780 Posts
Thanked 19,000 Times in 7,368 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but you wrote tourists and I am simply pointing it out that it is not just tourists who give them money ...
Ok, but I think we can use some contextual common sense and apply it both ways.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 03.05.2021, 10:39
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 11,950
Groaned at 305 Times in 261 Posts
Thanked 22,751 Times in 8,239 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

On a related note: they have tourists in Basel? Why?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 03.05.2021, 11:47
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,810
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,763 Times in 1,745 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
On a related note: they have tourists in Basel? Why?
ArtBasel, HourUniverse(formerly Baselworld), Swiss Indoors Basel, CSI Basel. What do you call to the people not living there that go to those events?

Last edited by Axa; 03.05.2021 at 11:58.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 03.05.2021, 12:04
itsjess's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Basel
Posts: 61
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 72 Times in 30 Posts
itsjess has earned some respectitsjess has earned some respect
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

This was a terrible thread for me to read one week before I move to Basel
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank itsjess for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 03.05.2021, 12:07
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,668
Groaned at 260 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 3,313 Times in 1,182 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
This was a terrible thread for me to read one week before I move to Basel
It isn't a reason enough to keep you away, it is still a lovely place to live and they will soon be gone. Just ignore them and don't give them your hard earned dollars.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Susie-Q for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 03.05.2021, 12:10
John_H's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Up above Nyon
Posts: 4,030
Groaned at 113 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 5,424 Times in 2,094 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
This was a terrible thread for me to read one week before I move to Basel
Coming from Glasgow I really wouldn't worry
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank John_H for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 03.05.2021, 12:52
itsjess's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Basel
Posts: 61
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 72 Times in 30 Posts
itsjess has earned some respectitsjess has earned some respect
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
It isn't a reason enough to keep you away, it is still a lovely place to live and they will soon be gone. Just ignore them and don't give them your hard earned dollars.
Fair enough, thanks Susie-Q

Quote:
View Post
Coming from Glasgow I really wouldn't worry
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank itsjess for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 03.05.2021, 12:54
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,450
Groaned at 205 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 14,221 Times in 7,362 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
TeleBasel did an interesting piece on it a litte while back : https://telebasel.ch/2020/08/26/repo...channel=105100
Yet the last sentence in that video shows the total lack of understanding the biggest part of the problem.
If the Swiss parliament decides to award an extra 1.3 milliard (why is that billion in US? How tf do you guys talk about money to each other? ) franks for eastern Europe (eastward enlargement) it's no help for the Romas AT ALL.
A Romanian is not necessarily a Roma! And Romas come from basically anywhere, not necessarily from Eastern Europe. Just like the Kurds are not necessarily Turkish!
Romas are a terribly discriminated group in general and very much so in Eastern Europe. Should the Bundesrat agree with the money spoken by the parliament they would bow to a (n other) demand of the EU, they might do some good for the newer, eastern members of the EU (I will not try to judge that as I don't know) but you can bet that not a bloody penny will reach the Romas!!!
So if anybody wants to help "at the source" they would have to go and do their own projects which adjust the huge disadvantages Romas have in their home countries.
Not to mention the age old problem that a majority wants to reeducate a minority who's life-style they don't like. As in trying to settle gipsies (and don't give me the politically incorrect blabla, most of them call themselves that proudly and I don't see why not).

Most of the beggars here may not be highly educated but they're street-wise. So don't blame them for doing their begging in Basel. Switzerland is probably the best place ever for that, due to the wealth in connection with the laws. (Dubai might be better in terms of wealth but beware of their
laws ).
The way to keep it at bay is by not giving anything. "Ruin the market" so to say.
__________________
It Ainít What You Donít Know That Gets You Into Trouble. Itís What You Know for Sure That Just Ainít So
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,711
Groaned at 165 Times in 104 Posts
Thanked 7,983 Times in 2,706 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
This was a terrible thread for me to read one week before I move to Basel
Are you bringing that adorable pup in your profile picture? If so, I can probably provide you with a tall and totally unpredatory local lad to show you around, he adores labs and anything that looks even remotely like them
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:26
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,307
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 23,896 Times in 10,140 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
A Romanian is not necessarily a Roma! And Romas come from basically anywhere, not necessarily from Eastern Europe. Just like the Kurds are not necessarily Turkish!
I've met quite a few in Hungary, and yes, all the ones I like to like to be called Gypsies (well, Cigany) and they don't like these new fangled words like Roma (actually Roma is more offensive than Cigany).

I have been inside their homes and drunk beer with them and yes, some of what people say is true and some of it isn't. What is definitely true is that they are welcoming and generous.

And although I see they have cultural (ahem incompatibilities) which can lead to unpleasant confrontations with the rest of the population, I absolutely think it is wrong to refer to them as being wrong or backward or evil or anything like that. The reason many people wouldn't want them as neighbours is because they are likely to party all night, have loads of kids, and collect junk in their yard (at least that's what people think, but even that isn't true in all cases). It's not that they threaten you or anything.

The ones you see on the news and that get into criminal activities are a tiny minority at best. Most of the others just want to live their lives and get on with whatever it is they are doing. And many of them, especially the younger ones, are actually quite ambitious and keen to leave a good impression and also keen to improve their situation.

Ultimately I believe the well intended top level programs to help them are counterproductive as there are so many intermediate layers where your good money can disappear.

In fact most of the ones I met don't even want anything for free as it offends their pride to accept gifts they cannot reciprocate. What they want is equal opportunities, access to education, jobs etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:38
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,450
Groaned at 205 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 14,221 Times in 7,362 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
I've met quite a few in Hungary, and yes, all the ones I like to like to be called Gypsies (well, Cigany) and they don't like these new fangled words like Roma (actually Roma is more offensive than Cigany)....
Yes, I wasn't gonna bring the word Tzigane in as this is an English forum as we are always taught.

If you called a Sinti Roma, yes that was offensive.
Not every Tzigane is a Roma. Isn't the world wonderfully complicated.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:49
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 11,950
Groaned at 305 Times in 261 Posts
Thanked 22,751 Times in 8,239 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
The ones you see on the news and that get into criminal activities are a tiny minority at best.
Absolutely. The problem is though that we are not talking about the Romas who happily live in Hungary, the Ruhrgebiet or elsewhere in Europe, are integrated and have a job like your or me... but the part of the minority that does have a lifestyle that includes at least organized begging.

It's pretty visible and obvious. I've personally witnessed an "interaction" between a group and some local homeless when I was living in Luxembourg last year and I would call that a turf war. Its pretty clearly organized crime. I think street begging should be outlawed as it is in Zurich and the homeless should be offered other ways to get help. That puts a lid on the organized groups as well.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:51
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: CH
Posts: 105
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 39 Posts
besmegenis is considered knowledgeablebesmegenis is considered knowledgeablebesmegenis is considered knowledgeable
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
In fact most of the ones I met don't even want anything for free as it offends their pride to accept gifts they cannot reciprocate. What they want is equal opportunities, access to education, jobs etc.
I am not saying there aren't good people within gypsies, but I see the complete opposite what you have told. Most of them just don't want to work. Looking for an easy way to earn money which leads to dealing drugs, stealing etc. Their kids see parents as an example and here we go with the culture for decades.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank besmegenis for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 03.05.2021, 13:59
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,810
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,763 Times in 1,745 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
In fact most of the ones I met don't even want anything for free as it offends their pride to accept gifts they cannot reciprocate. What they want is equal opportunities, access to education, jobs etc.
Is taxation to sustain a welfare state among the wishes? Or a libertarian approach to life?
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03.05.2021, 14:37
itsjess's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Basel
Posts: 61
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 72 Times in 30 Posts
itsjess has earned some respectitsjess has earned some respect
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
Are you bringing that adorable pup in your profile picture? If so, I can probably provide you with a tall and totally unpredatory local lad to show you around, he adores labs and anything that looks even remotely like them
Thanks Kittster, I'm a bit biased but I think she's adorable too Zola will indeed be coming with me, she's my little best mate.

Any local meet-ups would be great once we're settled (and it's safe to do so of course) - I have heard that it can be difficult to get to know people in Switzerland and I don't want to be a Nora No Mates forever
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03.05.2021, 14:48
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,307
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 23,896 Times in 10,140 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
I am not saying there aren't good people within gypsies, but I see the complete opposite what you have told. Most of them just don't want to work. Looking for an easy way to earn money which leads to dealing drugs, stealing etc. Their kids see parents as an example and here we go with the culture for decades.
No. Most do actually want to work. That often results in being taken away by a bus in the middle of the night to spend a week or two picking asparagus in Germany or apples in France for a pitiful wage, sleeping ten to a room and working 14 hour shifts while some middle-man makes a lot of money. Or carrying bricks on construction sites while living in constant fear of police raids because their employer is too cheap to put them on actual contracts.

I don't think anybody here would want to change places with them.

In any society there will be people who cut corners to make quick money. But it's not fair to tarnish all with the same brush.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 03.05.2021, 14:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,772
Groaned at 88 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 11,723 Times in 4,760 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Of any group, the ones who cause trouble are the ones who are noticed. The danger is extrapolating that to an interpretation that all of "them" are like that.

Just like the fruit-pickers and the brick-carriers, at least some of the beggars, too, work for a pimp who puts them in the bus and the deposits them somewhere where they have to stay, looking pitiful, until their bossman's bus collects them, and takes the money off them.

I wouldn't like to swap.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 03.05.2021, 14:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,772
Groaned at 88 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 11,723 Times in 4,760 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Basel offers homeless free one-way ticket to European destinations...

Quote:
View Post
No. Most do actually want to work. That often results in being taken away by a bus in the middle of the night to spend a week or two picking asparagus in Germany or apples in France for a pitiful wage, sleeping ten to a room and working 14 hour shifts while some middle-man makes a lot of money. Or carrying bricks on construction sites while living in constant fear of police raids because their employer is too cheap to put them on actual contracts.
This. Thank you.

Quote:
View Post
I don't think anybody here would want to change places with them.
And this, too.

Quote:
View Post
In any society there will be people who cut corners to make quick money. But it's not fair to tarnish all with the same brush.
And this, definitely. It is not only unfair, but intellectually lazy, to generalise, from the baddies, to say "all" of any group.

Last edited by doropfiz; 03.05.2021 at 14:56. Reason: typo: changing "fair" to "unfair"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any first month rent free offers in general in Zurich? ztimes Housing in general 9 20.08.2016 12:58
Darwin Airlines/Etihad Regional Sale to European Destinations (2 days only) 3Wishes Travel/day trips/free time 13 24.04.2014 23:27
Bern - Homeless centre? Or an homeless kids place? hollisterb Daily life 2 04.10.2011 13:46
Cablecom offers (Router free) humano TV/internet/telephone 23 21.03.2011 17:41
UBS offers all credit cards free for a year, except Platinum muze7 Finance/banking/taxation 3 27.04.2007 22:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0