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  #21  
Old 15.05.2021, 18:58
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Can we also use this thread for everything that we read on the Daily Mail, or should I open a separate thread?
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Old 15.05.2021, 19:12
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Can we also use this thread for everything that we read on the Daily Mail, or should I open a separate thread?
As far as I can tell, the OP is unsure of where the newspaper fits vis-a-vis the man in the street, and recognising that it seem to be veering towards what some may view as extreme, wants to know whether its views are representative thereof, or whether a better source might be available. Seems like a perfectly reasonable position.

If you, as a foreigner, were not clear about where the Daily Mail sits and wanted to find out more about it, then it might be reasonable to ask about it, although from what you've posted so far you seem to have a well-formed opinion of it.

Personally I have no idea, neither about the (NZZ) newspaper itself, as I've never read it, nor about whether the views mentioned are typical of Zurichers in general, so it's quite an interesting discussion. I dare say that many Swiss people already know the answers, just as most brits could tell you where the DM sits, but a Swiss living in the UK might very well be unaware, and with nuances of language and usage it's not always as easy for a foreigner to judge these things.

As for the warning, it's supposed to be a gentle private note, visible only to yourself and to other mods (although not the PM that goes with it) but as you've seen fit to share it then so be it - the posting it went with is overtly aggressive and completely unwarranted.
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Old 15.05.2021, 19:18
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Personally I have no idea, neither about the (NZZ) newspaper itself, as I've never read it, nor about whether the views mentioned are typical of Zurichers in general, so it's quite an interesting discussion. I dare say that many Swiss people already know the answers, just as most brits could tell you where the DM sits, but a Swiss living in the UK might very well be unaware, and with nuances of language and usage it's not always as easy for a foreigner to judge these things.
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Then maybe you are not in the right position to issue “WARNINGS” against those that do know?
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Old 15.05.2021, 19:36
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Then maybe you are not in the right position to issue “WARNINGS” against those that do know?
And maybe you should contribute to the NZZ discussion instead of just bringing your uninteresting beef with the OP here.
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Old 15.05.2021, 20:39
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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And maybe you should contribute to the NZZ discussion instead of just bringing your uninteresting beef with the OP here.
Have enough from my columns in The NY Times, thanks.
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Old 15.05.2021, 21:19
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Reflecting on the Swiss newspaper universe, I find it hard to see a real alternative to NZZ. At least for the German part. I still feel I don't know much about or understand the Romandie, but I am afraid without being able to read French that won't change. Or is there a Romand paper with an English or German language edition?

My Italian friends usually get their Swiss news from the Corriere del Ticino. No idea where that is politically.
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Old 15.05.2021, 23:07
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Essentially, the NZZ is a paper for well educated, well-off and usually not so young people with a rather conservative world view. Politically, it used to align more or less with the FDP, but has shifted to the right (but then again, so have parts of the FDP). Also, more of a national than a true "local" paper.
This. At university we were always told to read the NZZ,especially the Wirtschaftsteil.
Its an "Elite" newspaper. Written by white men (mostly) and read by white men (mostly). Hence they are not progressive. Liberal and conservative. Those that have money should keep the money so to speak. Hence the "hate" against the woke movement and the change they are trying to bring.

My father reads both the NZZ and the Tagesanzeiger in order to get balanced views (he is a white male).

Tagesanzeiger is more Zurich orientated and more to the left.

If you are abke to read the NZZ as a non German native your level of German is very good. Its not an easy read. The NZZ am Sonntag is more "mainstream" and easier to read.

Nice topic. Shows, that you are interested in what is happening in Switzerland, not only back home.
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Old 15.05.2021, 23:14
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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....
But then I don't know the landscape of Swiss journalism in this part of the country. Am I just reading the wrong paper?
If you read only one paper, you're doing it wrong. NZZ is definitely covering the interests and views of a big part of society. But still only a part.
NZZ using the smallest possible print and the most cramped layout - a true hassle to read, is that still the case? Well, online this no longer will bother anyone anyway.

There used to be the NZZ-crowd and the Tages-Anzeiger crowd. Reading both gave you a rather good overview of the opinions.

Like always when trying to get information to be able to build one's own opinion you need to check as many sources as you can (have time for).
I personally take info less serious by EFers who link the same one newspaper for years, what ever the subject may be.

For what it's worth, I thought OPs question was reasonable but they will only find the answer to it by broadening the variety of papers.
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Old 15.05.2021, 23:20
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Your post (and others today) are complete and utter crap, designed only to provoke. I don‘t read the NZZ, as you need to subscribe, but read otherwise most serious international press daily, so this reply doesn‘t come from an NZZ fan. I read the Daily Mail when on the loo as light reading. Before that I read other international press. However I don‘t brand all UK people (although it‘s sometimes hard not to) according to what I‘ve read in the Daily Mail. It takes common sense and insight into the society in order to be able to make an informed decision. That you clearly don‘t have.
The funniest thing is that the objective of a newspaper editor is precisely what OP is asking. This person asks rhetorically: who are our readers and what are we going to sell them?

Nothing particularly wrong with asking that. The people at NZZ should have regular meetings about this topic. Why readers cannot ponder about the same?
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Old 16.05.2021, 00:21
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

For another view, try the Weltwoche. Under new management, it took a turn towards the right a few years ago.

For a more left/alternative slant, have a look at the WoZ (Wochenzeitung).

For critical protest and practical info on the Swiss way things work (or don't) on societal, family, legal topics, and for articles about the application if the laws about topics such as employment and personal insurances, consult the Beobachter.

For articles about the realities of living at the struggling end of society, try Surprise.
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Old 16.05.2021, 00:40
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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For another view, try the Weltwoche. Under new management, it took a turn towards the right a few years ago.

For a more left/alternative slant, have a look at the WoZ (Wochenzeitung).

For critical protest and practical info on the Swiss way things work (or don't) on societal, family, legal topics, and for articles about the application if the laws about topics such as employment and personal insurances, consult the Beobachter.

For articles about the realities of living at the struggling end of society, try Surprise.
For my taste, Weltwoche has become unbearable now. Used to be a good paper for allowing different views, but Koeppel has just become more and more a Trumpist clown and right ideologist who lost touch with pragmatism. Their EU views are also extremely ideological now. Still of course a relevant piece if you want the views of the right. Their ever shrinking market share should however also be noticed.
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  #32  
Old 16.05.2021, 11:39
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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As far as I can tell, the OP is unsure of where the newspaper fits vis-a-vis the man in the street, and recognising that it seem to be veering towards what some may view as extreme, wants to know whether its views are representative thereof
Would like to clarify I never found the NZZ "extreme," just strident on certain issues for reasons not clear to me, but which now, thanks especially to Dare, Komsomolez, and Irish_temptation, are more clear to me now.

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Its an "Elite" newspaper. Written by white men (mostly) and read by white men (mostly). Hence they are not progressive. Liberal and conservative. Those that have money should keep the money so to speak. Hence the "hate" against the woke movement and the change they are trying to bring. [...]

If you are abke to read the NZZ as a non German native your level of German is very good. Its not an easy read. The NZZ am Sonntag is more "mainstream" and easier to read.
All this is helpful, though not (only) because it somewhat confirms my first intuitions. Rather, your comment makes me more curious about the attitudes around "elite"ness in this (German-speaking part of) Swiss culture, no doubt a complex topic, e.g., how old/new/foreign elites perceive one another; to what extent "elite"ness is defined here in terms of wealth; how much or how little social mobility figures into the dreams of young people amid an education system that seems to honor equality, support all professional paths, and eschew elitism.

Regarding the language, to me the NZZ seems to enjoy more "earthy" expressions -- a distinct flavor of German in Switzerland, given a certain closeness to the land?

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For what it's worth, I thought OPs question was reasonable but they will only find the answer to it by broadening the variety of papers.
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A relative newcomer is Republik, which was founded in 2017 through a crowdfunding that was so successful that it reached its goal within a day. Here's some info about who's behind it and writing for it:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republik_(Magazin)
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For another view, try the Weltwoche. Under new management, it took a turn towards the right a few years ago.
For a more left/alternative slant, have a look at the WoZ (Wochenzeitung).
For critical protest and practical info on the Swiss way things work (or don't) on societal, family, legal topics, and for articles about the application if the laws about topics such as employment and personal insurances, consult the Beobachter.
For articles about the realities of living at the struggling end of society, try Surprise.
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For my taste, Weltwoche has become unbearable now. [...] Still of course a relevant piece if you want the views of the right.
Thanks for fanning out to this broader array and notating where they're positioned in the journalism scene here. These other sources weren't known to me; I'll check them out.

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I still feel I don't know much about or understand the Romandie, but I am afraid without being able to read French that won't change. Or is there a Romand paper with an English or German language edition? My Italian friends usually get their Swiss news from the Corriere del Ticino. No idea where that is politically.
Interesting to know that about Italophone CH, and to be reminded of Romandie. Hope to learn more eventually about the many Switzerlands beyond Zürich-ish.

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Great article from today about the growing distance and misunderstandings between farmers and the suburban/urban society in the context of the agri initiatives.
https://www.nzz.ch/gesellschaft/die-...men-ld.1625156
I read this on your recommendation and found it both informative and poignant. (It's also connected to the very first question I ever asked here, about Swiss bio dairy.) After mentioning inheritance tax in my opening question, I found a NZZ article from earlier in the week critiquing the idea of inheritance tax, which I don't agree with but appreciated for laying out Swiss rationales against the measure:

https://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/erbsch...tel-ld.1624679
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Old 16.05.2021, 12:45
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

The NZZ has always been a conservative paper. It’s roots are in the old liberal pro-business elite of Switzerland. So compared to Anglo media is it very restrained and objective, but has a clear bias to the right by about the same margin the Guardian is left. The content is high quality when it comes to international news and anything business or economy. Social topics and Swiss political views are much worse.
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Old 16.05.2021, 13:33
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

I think Dave, a few posts before, best describes what the political views of the NZZ are. I have a subscription, even though it is too right-wing for my taste. But the articles are usually well written and factually correct.

Just a tip for those who live in Zurich: With a membership in the Pestalozzi Library, which costs about 70 Fr. a year, you have access via Pressreader to a myriad of newspapers (NZZ, letemps, most English broadsheets, FAZ etc).
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Old 16.05.2021, 13:57
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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For another view, try the Weltwoche. Under new management, it took a turn towards the right a few years ago.

For a more left/alternative slant, have a look at the WoZ (Wochenzeitung).

For critical protest and practical info on the Swiss way things work (or don't) on societal, family, legal topics, and for articles about the application if the laws about topics such as employment and personal insurances, consult the Beobachter.

For articles about the realities of living at the struggling end of society, try Surprise.
I am a voracious reader of pretty much everything and enjoy reading both the Tagi and the NZZ.
I find it quite amusing that though the one is left wing and the other is right wing , they are both advocates... for wildly different reasons...of Switzerland joining the EU.

The punters however are still not buying it.
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Old 16.05.2021, 14:49
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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For my taste, Weltwoche has become unbearable now. Used to be a good paper for allowing different views, but Koeppel has just become more and more a Trumpist clown and right ideologist who lost touch with pragmatism. Their EU views are also extremely ideological now. Still of course a relevant piece if you want the views of the right. Their ever shrinking market share should however also be noticed.
To be fair, Köppel took Weltwoche downhill long before Trump era, as chief editor 2001 until 2004.
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Old 16.05.2021, 15:17
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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The NZZ has always been a conservative paper. It’s roots are in the old liberal pro-business elite of Switzerland. So compared to Anglo media is it very restrained and objective, but has a clear bias to the right by about the same margin the Guardian is left. The content is high quality when it comes to international news and anything business or economy. Social topics and Swiss political views are much worse.
The large majority of the UK papers are on the right and not all are the type you Are suggesting.

Some are ultra populist (Mail, Express), then you have The Daily Telegraph which is very Conservative but tries to keep things relatively restrained. The Times is metropolitan and liberal (FDP types). The Financial Times even more so.
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Old 16.05.2021, 15:55
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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To be fair, Köppel took Weltwoche downhill long before Trump era, as chief editor 2001 until 2004.
Yes, and it is a shame. I liked the format actually, weekly and a broad mix of authors, topics and opinions.
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Old 16.05.2021, 16:47
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Regarding the UK press, it exasperates me that people try to attribute the popularity of certain viewpoints / governments on the political outlook of the newspapers.

In the UK, the balance of left to right media is nothing like as pronounced as people say. The left-liberal side includes the Guardian. the mass-circulation tabloid Daily Mirror, the Independent, the "i" news, as well as popular magazines, notably The New Statesman. Increasingly these days, circulation of traditional newspapers is dwindling and being replaced by online-only news sources. Probably a majority of these are on the left, especially those with a younger readership e.g. The Canary, Novara Media, etc. Sceptics of the BBC complain that they have a left-liberal bias. Not sure how true this is. They are pretty even-handed on a party level though they do seem to promote the woke agenda and various trendy causes. This is even truer with Channel 4.

It's true that the Telegraph is conservative (big and small C) but they do at least carry articles that challenge that orthodoxy. This is even more true of The Times. Most balanced newspaper IMO is the Financial Times but I can't afford to subscribe on top of various other subscriptions I already have.

Personally I think that a news source's editorial policy has little impact on changing political views. Research constantly shows that we tend to seek out mags and newspapers that reflect our existing world view. If a left-leaning liberal started buying the Daily Mail without realising it was a centre-right newspaper, s/he would simply stop buying it after a few days and go elsewhere. Same with the Guardian. No one would read it for more than a day or two without realising where its politics lay. For some reason, there's a belief that people without strong political views would start reading the Mail or the Guardian and become sort of 'infected' by the prejudices of the editorial team. I see no evidence of that at all. As I say, we tend to seek out news sources that reflect our existing opinions and prejudices.
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Old 16.05.2021, 17:02
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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. If a left-leaning liberal started buying the Daily Mail without realising it was a centre-right newspaper, s/he would simply stop buying it after a few days and go elsewhere. Same with the Guardian. No one would read it for more than a day or two without realising where its politics lay. For some reason, there's a belief that people without strong political views would start reading the Mail or the Guardian and become sort of 'infected' by the prejudices of the editorial team. I see no evidence of that at all. As I say, we tend to seek out news sources that reflect our existing opinions and prejudices.
Goodness, what is a left-leaning liberal? I read the Guardian and the Daily Mail as my morning routine on the loo. I’ve usually read all the good, impartial, Swiss news beforehand.
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