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Old 15.05.2021, 12:31
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How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

I got a digital subscription to the NZZ last year, less for news than to see what people here are generally concerned with, how they tend to see the world and themselves, the NZZ being German-speaking Switzerland's newspaper of record. I scroll through their daily e-newsletters of headlines, most-read items, and weekend briefings, clicking through to read a few articles in full each week or surfing around the main site.

Articles expressing indignation against "wokeness" seem to crop twice a week. This is very odd to me. The social movements sweeping the US aimed at advocacy for disenfranchised group identities and condemning police violence have, in my impression, hardly rocked Swiss society. (Have similar social-justice efforts within a Swiss context made any dent in the Swiss establishment?) My intuitive read on this somewhat obsessive focus is that the NZZ is speaking for / addressing a Swiss readership that's alternately self-satisfied and insecure about their traditions and world standing, and takes these uncomfortable feelings out on well-justified protest in faraway places (especially bigger places that seem to "matter" more on the world stage than Switzerland itself).

They also seem to relish every opportunity to criticize or panic about Germany, sometimes in the benevolent guise of enlightening Germany on its imperiled future. There's little to learn from their reporting on countries "we don't like" (e.g., China, Iran) except that those regimes are doing horrible things. The NZZ made a video recently devoted to how proud it is of its network of international correspondents, so I also wonder why broader/deeper reporting from those places doesn't make it into print.

But then I don't know the landscape of Swiss journalism in this part of the country. Am I just reading the wrong paper? I chose the NZZ because it seems serious-minded and has a decent Feuilleton. Maybe in my naïveté I underestimated how conservative, or just how bürgerlich, its "bürgerlich-liberal" orientation means in the Swiss context? Every other time I read the NZZ there's something that makes me kinda wince inside. Yet I keep on reading because this is where I live, and have enough other non-Swiss sources I agree with. Moreover, if the NZZ is putting its finger on the political-psychological pulse of the Swiss people in my neighborhood, or of the older Zürich generation that raised my Swiss age-peers who are now raising my kid's future peers, that'd be very useful for me to know.

I'd be interested in hear from those who've been reading the NZZ for a longer time or just get the politics here. For instance, how does the Tages-Anzeiger compare in political orientation? The lack of inheritance tax here seems to encourage Zürchers to stay in Zürich over many generations, which suggests worldviews, too, might be slow to change in spite of overall demographic shifts?

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Old 15.05.2021, 12:44
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Tagi is much more left and in my view rather represents the city of Zurich, while NZZ has the ambition to be the leading paper of German Switzerland. NZZ also covers Germany extensively and even had a German edition. I find NZZ generally a "bürgerlich-liberal" paper, althought sometimes you find that commentary seems to have a quite different political view than what shines through the articles - especially on Covid that was remarkable.
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Old 15.05.2021, 13:02
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Tagi is much more left and in my view rather represents the city of Zurich, while NZZ has the ambition to be the leading paper of German Switzerland.
So the NZZ's ambitiousness results in sometimes goofy attempts to seem worldly? Is the Tages-Anzeiger's more-left-ness quite local in focus, or also re: the wider world?

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NZZ also covers Germany extensively and even had a German edition.
Are there many Germans who actually read the NZZ and if so who are they? I glance at the FAZ, the Süddeutsche, and Die Zeit now and then. Would you say the NZZ is closest in tone to the Süddeutsche, but a bit more kleinbürgerlich since Zürich is after all much smaller than Munich? I don't want to dislike the NZZ especially, just wish to understand whose views they're representing most of the time.

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I find NZZ generally a "bürgerlich-liberal" paper, althought sometimes you find that commentary seems to have a quite different political view than what shines through the articles - especially on Covid that was remarkable.
Yes it was remarkable! Thank you. I'm reading this stuff in a bit of a vacuum so your points are helpful.
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Old 15.05.2021, 13:39
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

It doesn't sound like you are happy with your investments in terms of local jouralism. It happens, we all make wrong investments or find out that things no longer fit. Change it.

NZZ is great. I think they import issues because they know the issues will show up, sooner or later. In the era of infotainment, I do not blame them. Everybody is taking their stance, so why not allow a leading paper. It would be dumb if they did not.

Switch and you'll be happier.
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Old 15.05.2021, 13:45
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Are there many Germans who actually read the NZZ and if so who are they? I glance at the FAZ, the Süddeutsche, and Die Zeit now and then. Would you say the NZZ is closest in tone to the Süddeutsche, but a bit more kleinbürgerlich since Zürich is after all much smaller than Munich? I don't want to dislike the NZZ especially, just wish to understand whose views they're representing most of the time.
Here is one. I am me. I read a lot of different news sources online. I would describe myself as liberal in the European sense, I guess in US terms that means fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

Not sure what German paper to compare it too, probably FAZ. Certainly not Zeit which is intellectual left idealism.

And no, I don't think NZZ or Zurich are "kleinbürgerlich". Germany is much worse. I appreciate the stronger sense of liberty here, which also comes through on many of the NZZ views.
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Old 15.05.2021, 13:53
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Here is one. I am me. I read a lot of different news sources online. I would describe myself as liberal in the European sense, I guess in US terms that means fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

Not sure what German paper to compare it too, probably FAZ. Certainly not Zeit which is intellectual left idealism.

And no, I don't think NZZ or Zurich are "kleinbürgerlich". Germany is much worse. I appreciate the stronger sense of liberty here, which also comes through on many of the NZZ views.
You are German? Your nick is konsomolez? Why am I thinking of DDR?

Anyways, NZZ offers what others do not. I agree with you that thank god for the liberty that the paper profits from. The views are varied, on top, I do not agree with the entire schtick. Some of the stuff. But the fact that they print a variety of opinions, the editorials and people disagreeing, is really reassuring. It is the democracy the paper is run with that sells them. Not necessarily the opinions themselves. They are anti dogmatic.
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Old 15.05.2021, 14:14
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Switch and you'll be happier.
Reading the NZZ is a way of researching where I am, and happiness almost always matters less to me than insight -- in this case insight into how (a possible majority of) people around me are thinking. I agree it's far better for a paper of its stature to cover issues abroad than not; it's the often not-quite-neutral angle I want to understand.

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I don't think NZZ or Zurich are "kleinbürgerlich". Germany is much worse. I appreciate the stronger sense of liberty here, which also comes through on many of the NZZ views.
"Kleinbürgerlich" isn't fair as an overall description of Zürich, I admit, but, to use that term in a non-disparaging way, I often sense a kernel of this quality in the way long-time Zürchers (or Swiss who feel more entitled to be here than non-Swiss others) regard elements of the outside world entering their own. This kernel may melt away over the course of interacting with / integrating such elements, but it's often there as a first reflex. This is understandable, and I'm trying to understand it more deeply. I'm curious about your view of Germany as being worse. In what way is there more (press?) liberty here?

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Old 15.05.2021, 14:23
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Reading the NZZ is a way of researching where I am, and happiness almost always matters less to me than insight -- in this case insight into how (a possible majority of) people around me are thinking. I agree it's far better for a paper of its stature to cover issues abroad than not; it's the often not-quite-neutral angle I want to understand.
I think it gets published because it is representative, even if it goes against the "average spirit of the boards of editors". That's how good the paper is, censorship isn't popular in CH. It wouldn't sell. If you want to understand and quantify how representative it is - you need to create a lot of friendships and bonds and communicate with people. People are very responsive - when you share the inquiry on how things are viewed here. Just don't try to judge, it is also unfashionable. I like the exposure NZZ offers, it has a lot of credit. And what seems "not-quite-neutral" to you may be complete vanilla here.
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Old 15.05.2021, 14:47
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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But the fact that they print a variety of opinions, the editorials and people disagreeing, is really reassuring. It is the democracy the paper is run with that sells them. Not necessarily the opinions themselves. They are anti dogmatic.
This is good to keep in mind and appreciate.

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I think it gets published because it is representative, even if it goes against the "average spirit of the boards of editors". That's how good the paper is, censorship isn't popular in CH.
But is there much to censor in the first place? I haven't seen unpopular opinions anywhere in the NZZ...? What is the "average spirit of the boards of editors"?

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If you want to understand and quantify how representative it is - you need to create a lot of friendships and bonds and communicate with people. People are very responsive - when you share the inquiry on how things are viewed here.
Would loves to chat up strangers about such matters, but partly due to having moved here in the pandemic, my interactions here are pretty limited (cf. "vacuum" above). In the meantime it can be useful to get contrast-enriched perspectives from those not of this place.

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Old 15.05.2021, 16:20
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

When it comes to economy, the NZZ is very conservative. As in "the economy is the most important thing and always right".
When it comes to international affairs, they're usually pro-USA and therefore, as you've rightly perceived, will bash the usual suspects. Their international correspondents used to be held in high regard, but I've read nothing for years, so I have no idea how it is nowadays.

They used to be more liberal when it came to social issues, but have taken a right turn there (going so far as trying to install Markus Somm as head editor, which did not go down well with the staff). The "anti-woke" opinion pieces you mentioned could be an attempt court "Weltwoche" readers.
Essentially, the NZZ is a paper for well educated, well-off and usually not so young people with a rather conservative world view. Politically, it used to align more or less with the FDP, but has shifted to the right (but then again, so have parts of the FDP). Also, more of a national than a true "local" paper.
As for how representative it is: There are a lot of votes on a lot of issues coming up in June. Read their commentary and then compare it to how people will have voted. That should give you an idea.
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Old 15.05.2021, 16:51
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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I got a digital subscription to the NZZ last year, less for news than to see what people here are generally concerned with, how they tend to see the world and themselves, the NZZ being German-speaking Switzerland's newspaper of record. I scroll through their daily e-newsletters of headlines, most-read items, and weekend briefings, clicking through to read a few articles in full each week or surfing around the main site.

Articles expressing indignation against "wokeness" seem to crop twice a week. This is very odd to me. The social movements sweeping the US aimed at advocacy for disenfranchised group identities and condemning police violence have, in my impression, hardly rocked Swiss society. (Have similar social-justice efforts within a Swiss context made any dent in the Swiss establishment?) My intuitive read on this somewhat obsessive focus is that the NZZ is speaking for / addressing a Swiss readership that's alternately self-satisfied and insecure about their traditions and world standing, and takes these uncomfortable feelings out on well-justified protest in faraway places (especially bigger places that seem to "matter" more on the world stage than Switzerland itself).

They also seem to relish every opportunity to criticize or panic about Germany, sometimes in the benevolent guise of enlightening Germany on its imperiled future. There's little to learn from their reporting on countries "we don't like" (e.g., China, Iran) except that those regimes are doing horrible things. The NZZ made a video recently devoted to how proud it is of its network of international correspondents, so I also wonder why broader/deeper reporting from those places doesn't make it into print.

But then I don't know the landscape of Swiss journalism in this part of the country. Am I just reading the wrong paper? I chose the NZZ because it seems serious-minded and has a decent Feuilleton. Maybe in my naïveté I underestimated how conservative, or just how bürgerlich, its "bürgerlich-liberal" orientation means in the Swiss context? Every other time I read the NZZ there's something that makes me kinda wince inside. Yet I keep on reading because this is where I live, and have enough other non-Swiss sources I agree with. Moreover, if the NZZ is putting its finger on the political-psychological pulse of the Swiss people in my neighborhood, or of the older Zürich generation that raised my Swiss age-peers who are now raising my kid's future peers, that'd be very useful for me to know.

I'd be interested in hear from those who've been reading the NZZ for a longer time or just get the politics here. For instance, how does the Tages-Anzeiger compare in political orientation? The lack of inheritance tax here seems to encourage Zürchers to stay in Zürich over many generations, which suggests worldviews, too, might be slow to change in spite of overall demographic shifts?
Your post (and others today) are complete and utter crap, designed only to provoke. I don‘t read the NZZ, as you need to subscribe, but read otherwise most serious international press daily, so this reply doesn‘t come from an NZZ fan. I read the Daily Mail when on the loo as light reading. Before that I read other international press. However I don‘t brand all UK people (although it‘s sometimes hard not to) according to what I‘ve read in the Daily Mail. It takes common sense and insight into the society in order to be able to make an informed decision. That you clearly don‘t have.
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Old 15.05.2021, 17:05
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

With regard to what "most" people might be thinking, perhaps these figures might interest you:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...n-der-schweiz/
Comparison of newspapers by circulation
Regrettably, most people read only 20 Minuten, or 20 minutes, and that's about it.

Here are some others, to try as alternatives or in addition to NZZ:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_...izer_Zeitungen

A relative newcomer is Republik, which was founded in 2017 through a crowdfunding that was so successful that it reached its goal within a day. Here's some info about who's behind it and writing for it:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republik_(Magazin)
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Old 15.05.2021, 17:09
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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You are German? Your nick is konsomolez? Why am I thinking of DDR?
No idea, tovarish.
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Old 15.05.2021, 17:13
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Your post (and others today) are complete and utter crap, designed only to provoke. [...] It takes common sense and insight into the society in order to be able to make an informed decision. That you clearly don‘t have.
I'm fairly new to the country. In this newish place I observe, and venture interpretations of what I observe -- one of which I shared here, inviting responses to help me make sense of things. The responses above by Dare, Komsomolez, MusicChick and Doropfiz have all helped me set my own reaction to the NZZ in perspective, either by giving more context or in reasoned disagreement. I consider my question answered.

Maybe you found my posts long-winded. That's OK. Didn't set out to provoke, but guess you felt provoked, maybe because you love this place and/or no longer wonder about it the way I do. Which just means you've been here longer, which should make you feel stronger and in no need of bullying me.

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Old 15.05.2021, 17:16
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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I don‘t read the NZZ, as you need to subscribe
Yea! A pity so. But if you're a student the subscription is only 5 SFr a month. Well worth it. NZZ has many a good inciteful story. Top notch reporting.
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Old 15.05.2021, 17:20
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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"Kleinbürgerlich" isn't fair as an overall description of Zürich, I admit, but, to use that term in a non-disparaging way ...

... I'm curious about your view of Germany as being worse. In what way is there more (press?) liberty here?
Did not mean this in the sense of freedom of press.

The Swiss are much more skeptical of government and in my view rightly assume they are usually in a better position to assess what is good for them and what is not. Germans tends to cry for government intervention all the time while also blaming the government for everything. There are Spiessbürger in Germany as there are Bünzlis here, for sure, but overall the political culture here is in my view far superior to and more tolerant than Germany.
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Old 15.05.2021, 17:53
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Great article from today about the growing distance and misunderstandings between farmers and the suburban/urban society in the context of the agri initiatives.

https://www.nzz.ch/gesellschaft/die-...men-ld.1625156
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Old 15.05.2021, 18:14
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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I'm fairly new to the country. In this newish place I observe, and venture interpretations of what I observe -- one of which I shared here, inviting responses to help me make sense of things. The responses above by Dare, Komsomolez, MusicChick and Doropfiz have all helped me set my own reaction to the NZZ in perspective, either by giving more context or in reasoned disagreement. I consider my question answered.

Maybe you found my posts long-winded. That's OK. Didn't set out to provoke, but guess you felt provoked, maybe because you love this place and/or no longer wonder about it the way I do. Which just means you've been here longer, which should make you feel stronger and in no need of bullying me.
I see Switzerland as someone that hasn’t grown-up here the same way as anyone else that has been here over a long time. Your comments were however extreme, and I do not support them. Others might. Has not a jot to do with “bullying”
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Old 15.05.2021, 18:47
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

Just got a warning from Ace1 (surprise, surprise):

You have received a warning at English Forum Switzerland.

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Aggressive or bullying behaviour

Maybe he supports extremist views? No idea
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Old 15.05.2021, 18:54
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Re: How representative of Zürich is the NZZ [Neue Zürcher Zeitung]?

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Just got a warning from Ace1 (surprise, surprise):

You have received a warning at English Forum Switzerland.

Reason:
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Aggressive or bullying behaviour

Maybe he supports extremist views? No idea
Very interesting. I shall check NZZ tomorrow whether they cover this in their Sunday edition.
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