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  #21  
Old 03.07.2021, 09:56
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

And the age old question. Why the {expletive deleted} does Switzerland need fighter jets? To train pilots for Swiss?

Last edited by bowlie; 03.07.2021 at 10:09.
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  #22  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:04
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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I realistically expect nobody to come to anyone's rescue - see Ukraine, etc. I only think that you can't buy planes from somebody who you are politically re-negotiating the bilaterals with. I think it was Peterson who said "negotiation is only ppssible if you can say F^%$ Off to the other party" or something like that (if you pardon my français). I think it was a matter of calculated lowest risk for her to make that choice. It was ecolo. And I think they look good, too. But that's just me.
Agree with everything you say....

....which is just a tiny fib
- the plane is f-ing ugly and looks nearly unfit to fly. AFAIK its characteristics make it unflyable when "computer says no" though this might be the case for other newer fighters as well
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  #23  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:11
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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And the age old question. Why the does Switzerland need fighter jets? To train pilots for Swiss?
That's just an additional benefit. You never know when Hermann will send his Bf109's swarming over our neutral skies again
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  #24  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:11
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Agree with everything you say....

....which is just a tiny fib
- the plane is f-ing ugly and looks nearly unfit to fly. AFAIK its characteristics make it unflyable when "computer says no" though this might be the case for other newer fighters as well
'When computer says no' was a problem of the recent Boeing scandal, when the planes were flyiable (with a good pilot, that is). My pov and pilot's pov who I know and who flew them for a long time.

Ugly? Are you...Are you an Antonov kinda guy?

I hope that the f35 choice finds support in the press for us to be able to understand better.
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  #25  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:19
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

From the Switzerland without ab army website.
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The Federal Council has decided that Switzerland should buy 36 F-35 fighter jets. This means: We are launching a Stop F35 initiative!

The F-35 has numerous technical defects, is completely oversized and extremely expensive. In addition, the US secret services will always sit in the cockpit in the future. This is scandalous in terms of democratic politics.

So Switzerland is supposed to become dependent on the Pentagon and throw up to 25 billion Swiss francs of our tax money out of the window for an oversized toy? Solutions to real problems such as the care or climate crises fall by the wayside. That is why we will launch an initiative against the F-35, as already announced in May. Because with this choice, the Federal Council is ignoring the opinion of the majority of the population, which does not want the F-35. We will bring down this luxury fighter jet at the ballot box!
https://stopp-kampfjets.ch/
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  #26  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:25
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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From the Switzerland without ab army website.
https://stopp-kampfjets.ch/
I doubt they would have gone this route if a different fighter had been chosen...
Even if the GSOA isn't everybody's darling, wouldn't be surprised if they receive support from across the board.
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  #27  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:32
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

This issue comes up every 5-7 years. I feel like I'm in a time warp.
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  #28  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:37
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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This issue comes up every 5-7 years. I feel like I'm in a time warp.
True, never gets old - additional benefit: neither do you
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  #29  
Old 03.07.2021, 10:39
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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This issue comes up every 5-7 years. I feel like I'm in a time warp.
I agree. I cannot understand why the Army is so insistent on buying useless tools. And when they pick defective* useless tools it is even more stupid.

*These so-called supersonic aircraft cannot fly supersonic as it damages the aircraft’s tail, destroys the stealth protection and damages antennas.

Last edited by bowlie; 03.07.2021 at 10:49.
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  #30  
Old 03.07.2021, 11:03
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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And the age old question. Why the {expletive deleted} does Switzerland need fighter jets? To train pilots for Swiss?
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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This issue comes up every 5-7 years. I feel like I'm in a time warp.
What was on the table last time? Was it Super Hornet that got voted down? Just think, if that had have gone ahead, the money saved compared to F-35 would have been massive.
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  #31  
Old 03.07.2021, 11:20
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Si vis pacem, para bellum


What was on the table last time? Was it Super Hornet that got voted down? Just think, if that had have gone ahead, the money saved compared to F-35 would have been massive.
Wasn't that the Saab Gripen? That at least looked cool and seemed inexpensive and robust.
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  #32  
Old 03.07.2021, 11:42
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

I think it was both ...
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  #33  
Old 03.07.2021, 12:12
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

I think that the F35 and the Patriot missile systems are a very sensible first choice. When these options are clearly rejected by a peoples' vote, the focus can then be on alternative toys produced closer to home.
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  #34  
Old 03.07.2021, 12:43
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

So why can a mod say
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you can say F^%$ Off
but I can’t say ?
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  #35  
Old 03.07.2021, 12:56
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

And as for Swiss neutrality and - gasp - defense autonomy...
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/ar...-united-states
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  #36  
Old 03.07.2021, 13:01
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Wasn't that the Saab Gripen? That at least looked cool and seemed inexpensive and robust.
Saab probably did not grease the wheels with enough "incentive."

But seriously the era of the manned swish-kaboom is over, drones are the way to go; way more manoeuvrable, pack the same punch for less bucks and if one gets shot down who cares, send the next one, and if you have to you can kamikaze in on your target.
Can´t do that with a F35.
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  #37  
Old 03.07.2021, 13:10
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Saab probably did not grease the wheels with enough "incentive."
Indeed they didn't.

US on the other hand had full time guys in Bern working only on that.
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  #38  
Old 03.07.2021, 13:44
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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And the age old question. Why the {expletive deleted} does Switzerland need fighter jets? To train pilots for Swiss?
It's every Swiss VIP's (Very Impotent Person) wet dream to be Top Gun.
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  #39  
Old 03.07.2021, 15:02
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

Try this with a manned (sorry, peopled?) plane...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-reaper-drone/
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  #40  
Old 03.07.2021, 15:34
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Try this with a manned (sorry, peopled?) plane...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-reaper-drone/
Okay, quite a few other non-experts in CH are bleating that drones are the future, cheap, reliable *cough cough* and while the brief of the Swiss AF does seem ambitious – it doesn’t cover strikes in Africa.
Additional points are lost through lack of cramped goat joyride accommodation for VIP animal lovers
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