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Old 02.07.2021, 18:05
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F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

Or are the Swiss simply (as usual) gullible? As ever so often, not an expert but I’m convinced this “choice” is wrong in multiple ways. Anyone care to argue or *gasp* agree?
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Old 02.07.2021, 20:51
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

The F35 is a fantastic aircraft, it exceeds by far it´s design parameters as a cash cow for shareholders.
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Old 03.07.2021, 00:47
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

The F-35 is such a fantastic aircraft that the US Air Force no longer really wants it. Perhaps Switzerland can get hand-me-downs in a swap for its F-5s. Can't say Switzerland would win in availability or even years to end-of-life, but hey.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=69e339631b16
https://www.defensenews.com/congress...ist-not-f-35s/
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...eral-says.html
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Old 03.07.2021, 08:02
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...er-jet-fiasco/
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Rep. John Garamendi (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Armed Services Readiness subcommittee, singled out the “huge problem” with the F-35: “We buy more planes [but] we’re not able to maintain the older ones, so the more we buy, the worse the overall performance has been. That is going to stop.”

Garamendi is hardly the first Congressman to criticize the F-35 program. Earlier this month, Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., the new head of the House Armed Services Committee, called the F-35 a “rathole.” Smith suggested the Pentagon should “cut its losses” and invest in a range of jets.

Garamendi may have been referencing the operating costs, as the F-35 currently costs $35,000 per hour to fly (recently down from $44,000), compared to $27,000 per hour for other jets.
I’ll vote No.

Biggest problem I see is that it is a single engine aircraft. That is just ‘plane’ silly in Switzerland’s mountains.

Last edited by bowlie; 03.07.2021 at 08:43.
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Old 03.07.2021, 08:22
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

Doesn‘t matter if the plane is crap, it‘ll never be used in combat…
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Old 03.07.2021, 08:54
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

It's the perfect jet for Switzerland: it's insanely expensive so must be good!
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:01
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

I suspect they got a good price, but yes overall this looks like a questionable choice. On the other hand, these guys procuring kit for the army must know their stuff?
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:02
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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It's the perfect jet for Switzerland: it's insanely expensive so must be good!
What's the esthetics?

Back to seriousness - the US choice was strategic, I think. Not EU, not R. Just my intuition, the local press is immensely hard on the Sec of Defence, I read nothing positive. https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/f35-le...e-viola-amherd (FR)
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:02
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Doesn‘t matter if the plane is crap, it‘ll never be used in combat…
But if it’s crap it will be crashing into mountains and killing the pilot, hikers and even goats.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:18
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

No violence against goats, please!
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:23
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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No violence against goats, please!
They might squeeze one inside for a scenic flight?
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:23
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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I suspect they got a good price, but yes overall this looks like a questionable choice. On the other hand, these guys procuring kit for the army must know their stuff?
Doubtful with their track record
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:27
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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What's the esthetics?

Back to seriousness - the US choice was strategic, I think. Not EU, not R. Just my intuition, the local press is immensely hard on the Sec of Defence, I read nothing positive. https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/f35-le...e-viola-amherd (FR)
If it was a car, every one would know it's a lemon - and it looks plane ugly too
As to strategy - pretty dumb decision IMO
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:29
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...er-jet-fiasco/

I’ll vote No.

Biggest problem I see is that it is a single engine aircraft. That is just ‘plane’ silly in Switzerland’s mountains.
Could be an advantage. Makes for a lighter aircraft that's requires lower maintenance and less fuel.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:35
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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If it was a car, every one would know it's a lemon - and it looks plane ugly too
As to strategy - pretty dumb decision IMO
Maybe she thinks that the EU is too R tolerant. And instead of creating jobs for Eurofighter production, she recycles from a like minded political power? At least that is the logic I see. Some stuff obviously wasn't aired, I wonder if there will be more info provided.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:35
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

In my opinion CH should stick to low and mid-level aircraft like a home grown Pilatus and "rent" the high level swisch-kabooms from Germany or Italy by the hour.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:39
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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In my opinion CH should stick to low and mid-level aircraft like a home grown Pilatus and "rent" the high level swisch-kabooms from Germany or Italy by the hour.
While they are saying "no" to the bilaterals.

Even if - renting an army is a thing of past I think.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:43
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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In my opinion CH should stick to low and mid-level aircraft like a home grown Pilatus and "rent" the high level swisch-kabooms from Germany or Italy by the hour.
Especially outside of normal business opening hours.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:43
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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Maybe she thinks that the EU is too R tolerant. And instead of creating jobs for Eurofighter production, she recycles from a like minded political power? At least that is the logic I see. Some stuff obviously wasn't aired obviously, I wonder if there will be more info provided.
I get it! R = Russia - thought it was RF or RUS
Expecting the USA to come to our rescue is bit more than unrealistic, I'd say. Understand you are very critical regarding your former comrades but in the meantime I'm just as unhappy with our former saviours.
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Old 03.07.2021, 09:49
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Re: F-35: those who think the USandA suck at sales are wrong

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I get it! R = Russia - thought it was RF or RUS
Expecting the USA to come to our rescue is bit more than unrealistic, I'd say. Understand you are very critical regarding your former comrades but in the meantime I'm just as unhappy with our former saviours.
I realistically expect nobody to come to anyone's rescue - see Ukraine, etc. I only think that you can't buy planes from somebody who you are politically re-negotiating the bilaterals with. I think it was Peterson who said "negotiation is only ppssible if you can say F^%$ Off to the other party" or something like that (if you pardon my français). I think it was a matter of calculated lowest risk for her to make that choice. It was ecolo. And I think they look good, too. But that's just me.
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