Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 26.09.2021, 22:26
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,745
Groaned at 118 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 7,627 Times in 3,461 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Change is far from always positive, and as already pointed out the entire undetaking is completely ignoring the effect on the children. It's the usual "sod everybody else, I only care about me".
Are you having a laugh? Have you seen some of the awful human beings that "raise" children - but it's ok that they are shite parents, because they are straight? Or what? Do you really think a child raised in a secure loving environment by same sex parents is worse off than those children?

I'm pretty sure these children will grow up to be far more balanced than those raised by football hooligan racists, just for example.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #202  
Old 26.09.2021, 22:35
ennui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 1,189
Groaned at 36 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,670 Times in 1,284 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
…I've worked between 93-97, 4 summers vacation while at college, for free, at Christian charity association, building two orphanage centres and modernising other two...
…now 30 years later I am supporting financially(less) and logistically(more) integration of orphans in healthy families...
What’s a healthy family?
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #203  
Old 26.09.2021, 22:36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 69
Groaned at 9 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 96 Times in 36 Posts
zookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of many
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Are you having a laugh? Have you seen some of the awful human beings that "raise" children - but it's ok that they are shite parents, because they are straight? Or what? Do you really think a child raised in a secure loving environment by same sex parents is worse off than those children?

I'm pretty sure these children will grow up to be far more balanced than those raised by football hooligan racists, just for example.
Well said. If this was a campaign for adoption or IVF in general it wouldn't be controversial, but for a gay couple... god forbid.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank zookeeperash for this useful post:
  #204  
Old 26.09.2021, 22:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 7,028
Groaned at 419 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 9,723 Times in 4,550 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Done and dusted and that’s a good thing IMHO. I am wondering if other forms of marriage will be next. Line marriages, for example, with no numerical limitation on spouse numbers. Or simple Polygamy or polyamorous marriages. Or a mix and match.

And why noy?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #205  
Old 26.09.2021, 23:38
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bern
Posts: 66
Groaned at 84 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 188 Times in 100 Posts
father frost is considered unworthyfather frost is considered unworthyfather frost is considered unworthyfather frost is considered unworthy
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Are you having a laugh? Have you seen some of the awful human beings that "raise" children - but it's ok that they are shite parents, because they are straight? Or what? Do you really think a child raised in a secure loving environment by same sex parents is worse off than those children?
Of course, there is no guarantee that the same sex parents will provide a secure, loving environment though, as far as i'm aware they are just as fallible as the rest of us.

Wonder why these these relationships need to be justified using the worst examples of parenting...
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 26.09.2021, 23:49
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 69
Groaned at 9 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 96 Times in 36 Posts
zookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of many
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Wonder why these these relationships need to be justified using the worst examples of parenting...
I wouldn't say we are justifying same sex couples having kids by saying "hey, could be worse"; however, when people harp on about protecting the children from the gays then it's worth mentioning that compared to some other bad examples of parenting, there are definitely worse things out there then a decent, same sex couple who just want what's best for their kid.
Edit: Also, if we're all just as fallible as each other, why are we even debating this? ��
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank zookeeperash for this useful post:
  #207  
Old 26.09.2021, 23:58
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 6,745
Groaned at 118 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 7,627 Times in 3,461 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Of course, there is no guarantee that the same sex parents will provide a secure, loving environment though, as far as i'm aware they are just as fallible as the rest of us.

Wonder why these these relationships need to be justified using the worst examples of parenting...
The point is, being good parents is nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with being decent people. Yet no one questions the right of not so decent straight couples to have kids.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #208  
Old 27.09.2021, 00:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,126
Groaned at 589 Times in 427 Posts
Thanked 13,646 Times in 7,098 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
The point is, being good parents is nothing to do with sexuality and everything to do with being decent people. Yet no one questions the right of not so decent straight couples to have kids.
That claim looks very much based on wishful thinking.
Quote:
View Post
Are you having a laugh? Have you seen some of the awful human beings that "raise" children - but it's ok that they are shite parents, because they are straight? Or what? Do you really think a child raised in a secure loving environment by same sex parents is worse off than those children?

I'm pretty sure these children will grow up to be far more balanced than those raised by football hooligan racists, just for example.
Feel free to scroll up. The study on the Canadians linked by yacek in #135 is very sobering.

That said, trying to compare some Nirvana situation with everyday people in an effort to make a point may look intelligent to you, in reality is just a useless rhetorical move that demonstrates complete disinterest in an fair discussion.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users groan at Urs Max for this post:
  #209  
Old 27.09.2021, 00:19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Cold Ghost
Posts: 275
Groaned at 46 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 859 Times in 343 Posts
BritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
That claim looks very much based on wishful thinking.

Feel free to scroll up. The study on the Canadians linked by yacek in #135 is very sobering.

That said, trying to compare some Nirvana situation with everyday people in an effort to make a point may look intelligent to you, in reality is just a useless and pathetic rhetorical move.
It baffles me that this forum has to shut down for amongst other things, homophobic hate speech.

If you think that a gay couple are unsuitable parents just for the fact they like doing it in a different hole to you, i don’t know what to tell you, Urs. Maybe make a few gay friends.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank BritS for this useful post:
This user groans at BritS for this post:
  #210  
Old 27.09.2021, 09:12
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

I voted YES (by proxy) to LGBTQXYZ... marriage. Consenting adults should be allowed to marry and do whoever they want, as it is not my business.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #211  
Old 27.09.2021, 09:23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Cold Ghost
Posts: 275
Groaned at 46 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 859 Times in 343 Posts
BritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
I voted YES (by proxy) to LGBTQXYZ... marriage. Consenting adults should be allowed to marry and do whoever they want, as it is not my business.
Amen to that.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank BritS for this useful post:
  #212  
Old 27.09.2021, 09:30
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,504
Groaned at 325 Times in 227 Posts
Thanked 7,149 Times in 3,039 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
It baffles me that this forum has to shut down for amongst other things, homophobic hate speech.

If you think that a gay couple are unsuitable parents just for the fact they like doing it in a different hole to you, i don’t know what to tell you, Urs. Maybe make a few gay friends.
Hate speech? The only point that was raised here was the question of adoption, childrens wellbeing. Only in super woke world is that equivalent to hate speech.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #213  
Old 27.09.2021, 09:34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Cold Ghost
Posts: 275
Groaned at 46 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 859 Times in 343 Posts
BritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond reputeBritS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Hate speech? The only point that was raised here was the question of adoption, childrens wellbeing. Only in super woke world is that equivalent to hate speech.
I'm sure if you read my comment again, you'll see I didn't directly accuse anyone of hate speech, but my faux shock that where such opinions are openly aired, that hate speech may occur.

My second issue was using a largely debunked study to prove something to me suggests a slightly deeper set attitude than someone really looking at the facts...perhaps finding something to try and justify the narrative.

Hope that's cleared things up for you, cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:21
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winti
Posts: 1,974
Groaned at 60 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,255 Times in 1,214 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
Of course, there is no guarantee that the same sex parents will provide a secure, loving environment though, as far as i'm aware they are just as fallible as the rest of us.

Wonder why these these relationships need to be justified using the worst examples of parenting...
Same sex couples are far less likely to get pregnant by accident. They have to plan to have a child, for years in some cases, so they are better prepared than many opposite sex couples.
Yes, they may be just as fallible in many ways, just not when it comes to contraception fails.

(Disclaimer, my child was planned for 4 years before they came into our opposite sex family, and we still divorced, they are fine though… much happier having two (and two step) parents who are happy, than living in a toxic nuclear family).
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #215  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Here
Posts: 512
Groaned at 59 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 1,477 Times in 524 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
In which country is it NOT new?

"In 2001, the metropolitan Netherlands became the first country to establish same-sex marriage by law."

Only 20 years ago is certainly "new".

Tom
Oh good grief Tom.


Quote:
View Post
Your "CH is a bit behind" and whatnot tells a very different story, at best it's condescending and massively patronising. Change is far from always positive, and as already pointed out the entire undetaking is completely ignoring the effect on the children. It's the usual "sod everybody else, I only care about me".
What effect on the children? Children want a loving, secure, safe environment. Whoever can provide that is winning in my book. Gay, straight or single.

Quote:
View Post
…I've worked between 93-97, 4 summers vacation while at college, for free, at Christian charity association, building two orphanage centres and modernising other two...
…now 30 years later I am supporting financially(less) and logistically(more) integration of orphans in healthy families...


Quote:
View Post
What’s a healthy family?
What I want to know too.

Quote:
View Post
That claim looks very much based on wishful thinking.

Feel free to scroll up. The study on the Canadians linked by yacek in #135 is very sobering.

That said, trying to compare some Nirvana situation with everyday people in an effort to make a point may look intelligent to you, in reality is just a useless rhetorical move that demonstrates complete disinterest in an fair discussion.
Yet you keep denigrating the intelligence of those who disagree with you. What is that? That study is pretty much bunkum as far as I can see and only serves to perpetuate a very narrow world view and fear of two blokes/two women raising kids. Good gravy.



Quote:
View Post
Hate speech? The only point that was raised here was the question of adoption, childrens wellbeing. Only in super woke world is that equivalent to hate speech.
As I said above: two dads, two mums, single parents, hetero couples, married or not, children want loving, safe, secure family homes. It doesn't matter how that family is constructed. To say otherwise is distasteful at best.

When did "woke" become an insult and a synonym for "everything I don't like /am scared of"?

Children's well-being? In family homes rather than an endless stream of foster carers/group homes has to be the preferred situation, surely?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #216  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:39
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 69
Groaned at 9 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 96 Times in 36 Posts
zookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of many
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
That said, trying to compare some Nirvana situation with everyday people in an effort to make a point may look intelligent to you, in reality is just a useless rhetorical move that demonstrates complete disinterest in an fair discussion.
Ah so we're not normal to you?
You know what, if this is such a huge issue for you then you obviously have very few problems in your own life. Maybe try worrying about some actual world problems as apposed to a family unit that looks a bit different to what you'd cosinder "normal".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank zookeeperash for this useful post:
  #217  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:43
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 3,504
Groaned at 325 Times in 227 Posts
Thanked 7,149 Times in 3,039 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post

As I said above: two dads, two mums, single parents, hetero couples, married or not, children want loving, safe, secure family homes. It doesn't matter how that family is constructed. To say otherwise is distasteful at best.

When did "woke" become an insult and a synonym for "everything I don't like /am scared of"?

Children's well-being? In family homes rather than an endless stream of foster carers/group homes has to be the preferred situation, surely?
My point was not to argue on the pro/con. But there is a big difference between a polite debate on the adoption question and "homophobic hate speech".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #218  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:51
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Here
Posts: 512
Groaned at 59 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 1,477 Times in 524 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
My point was not to argue on the pro/con. But there is a big difference between a polite debate on the adoption question and "homophobic hate speech".
I'm afraid not if any of the debate about adoption includes concerns that gay couples are somehow less than straight couples or that same-sex couples somehow have a negative impact on children. That's just appalling. And, indeed, hateful. The very idea that children should not be allowed to be adopted by gay couples is homophobic. I don't see how it can be anything else.

Anyway, it thankfully passed, yes?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at RufusB for this post:
  #219  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 69
Groaned at 9 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 96 Times in 36 Posts
zookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of manyzookeeperash has earned the respect of many
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
I'm afraid not if any of the debate about adoption includes concerns that gay couples are somehow less than straight couples or that same-sex couples somehow have a negative impact on children. That's just appalling. And, indeed, hateful. The very idea that children should not be allowed to be adopted by gay couples is homophobic. I don't see how it can be anything else.

Anyway, it thankfully passed, yes?
I said the same, and essentially got told I was being emotional and trying manipulate other jnto believing the same as me. But I agree, even if it's not with intent, the statement of "it's not normal" or "they shouldn't be having kids", indeed implies that we are less worthy and does come from a place of homophobia, whether it's intended or not.
I'm sure I'll be corrected about this, but as a gay I have a pretty good idea of where homophobia comes from
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank zookeeperash for this useful post:
  #220  
Old 27.09.2021, 11:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Here
Posts: 512
Groaned at 59 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 1,477 Times in 524 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Vote September 26th

Quote:
View Post
I said the same, and essentially got told I was being emotional and trying manipulate other jnto believing the same as me. But I agree, even if it's not with intent, the statement of "it's not normal" or "they shouldn't be having kids", indeed implies that we are less worthy and does come from a place of homophobia, whether it's intended or not.
I'm sure I'll be corrected about this, but as a gay I have a pretty good idea of where homophobia comes from
Oh, being told you're emotional is a bit of a badge of honour around here. Generally means that "the other side" hasn't actually got an actual point but they would like you to shut up now and sit down now because your truth is uncomfortable. IMO, obvs...

Yup. I'd say so too.

Last edited by RufusB; 27.09.2021 at 11:23. Reason: Spellink
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
22nd September 2013: Ticino and the Burka ban vote Sean Connery Swiss politics/news 738 07.07.2014 13:05
Vote in September for new epidemie laws omtatsat Daily life 128 21.08.2013 17:17
Anybody travelling from Zurich to Geneva/Lyone tomorrow - 26th September samofsydney Transportation/driving 0 25.09.2009 15:01
Anyone fany going for a Doggy outing on Saturday 26th September [ZH] Guest Pet corner 1 24.09.2009 12:12
Canton Zurich: Smoking Vote September 28 AbFab Swiss politics/news 246 07.10.2008 23:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0