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  #281  
Old 27.09.2021, 22:13
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Re: Vote September 26th

I'm guessing that many of the people who have an issue with this issue, were brought up by two opposite sex parents - apparently that however did not make them decent humans
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  #282  
Old 27.09.2021, 22:39
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Re: Vote September 26th

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"I hope that the social/family network of the single foster parent is taken into account in the UK/US?" I have no clue what that bunch of jargon means?

From the gov UK web site on fostering "Before you can foster, you must pass an assessment to check that you’re able to care for a child. You will not be assessed on your age, ethnicity, gender, marital status, religion or sexual orientation." I hope this helps you.
Sounds good. Obviously there are checks before so with that in mind, when I was speaking of social/family network i was referring to that:

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And my response would be, what about the grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins, etc... There are role models aplenty in families. Because of my dad's long working hours and my childhood bedtime, I spent a hell of a lot more time with my paternal granddad than my dad for my first 8 or so years.
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  #283  
Old 27.09.2021, 23:23
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Re: Vote September 26th

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And my response would be, what about the grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins, etc... There are role models aplenty in families. Because of my dad's long working hours and my childhood bedtime, I spent a hell of a lot more time with my paternal granddad than my dad for my first 8 or so years.

Same here, and whilst sperm donation is currently only open to heterosexual couples in Switzerland, and surrogacy is illegal to all, such procedures would happen outside of the country. The issue would inevitably be adoption of those children by the other partner within the marriage, but from what I've read here on many occasions, that can be an issue for hetero couples.

In the UK, my brother's wife had a 9yr old foster son when they married, who had been with her since he was 7mths old. It was a further 4yrs before his biological parents allowed the adoption to proceed (he'd been taken into emergency care as a baby and his parents weren't allowed access to him or his 2 siblings). My brother went through hell dealing with the investigations of the adoption board, even though he was a solicitor who had specialised in child protection and his wife is a social worker with extensive experience as a foster carer.

What I'm trying to say is, the adoption laws of Switzerland are where the next 'battle' lies, and that will have ramifications for everyone involved, whether they be in same sex or hetero marriages. Even a change to sperm donation laws would be biased against men in same sex marriages, so contentious in itself. Whilst most issues can be circumnavigated, everyone will end up with the adoption issues.
"what about the grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins, etc." in these days of mobility of labor I doubt such family networks exist for many people. Thanks to corona, I have not seen my grandchildren for years.
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  #284  
Old 28.09.2021, 07:48
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Re: Vote September 26th

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"what about the grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins, etc." in these days of mobility of labor I doubt such family networks exist for many people. Thanks to corona, I have not seen my grandchildren for years.
You meant "because of corona"...I hope.
(you know my English is not very good, just asking...)

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Are there?
Either the child was born out of wedlock and the father wants nothing to with it or the parents were together and are now divorced. Then theres the possibility that one parent died.
What am I missing?
The parents are divorced and still one of them wants nothing to do with their child or children. (they can't stand/hate their ex'es or simply want to move on, have a new family where the other partner is gelous etc etc etc )
People can have really shitty behaviours, it happens more often than we can think of...as they say "Common sense is not that common". So yeah, those father or unfortunately even mother role models could be missing from one's life more often than we like to believe and indeed, for a lot of other reasons.

Right, where were we? The vote is over and done with it.
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  #285  
Old 28.09.2021, 08:11
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Re: Vote September 26th

I was raised by a single mother, saw my father perhaps 5 times over the next 20 years. I cut all ties with him and written him out of my Swiss will (to the extent I can)
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  #286  
Old 28.09.2021, 09:29
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I'm guessing that many of the people who have an issue with this issue were brought up by two opposite sex parents
Since the majority of people have two opposite sex parents, it's almost a truism.

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apparently that however did not make them decent humans
I see. So for you anyone who believes, for example, that marriage is by definition between one biological man and one biological woman, has no decency. Jolly good. I find people are more nuanced than that. There are people I find otherwise decent who hold views I cannot countenance. (E.g categorising decency according to specific single issues ).

If someone considers heterosexual married parents to be the ideal, I'd say don't let perfect be the enemy of good, because there what matters is that the children have someone who cares for them.

My own take is that so long as its better than being in a kids home or with abusive/incapable parents, who gives a toss about marital status or sexuality?
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  #287  
Old 28.09.2021, 09:50
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I see. So for you anyone who believes, for example, that marriage is by definition between one biological man and one biological woman, has no decency. Jolly good.
I think that someone who canít let another live their life as they choose is a bit of a shit.

If you want to marry someone of the opposite sex perfect, doesnít mean you have the right to tell someone else they canít do the opposite.
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  #288  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:05
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Re: Vote September 26th

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One wonders if your opponents think itís ok for a single parent to bring up a child or not? These children are also missing a role model of one gender or the other. If they think single parents are ok but same sex are not, then their reasoning is homophobic.
As a single parent I had a visceral reaction to the Nein poster with the baby saying A life without daddy? Yes, we are divorced and my child sees their father 3/4 times a year and they speak twice a week, but what about widows? My dadís dad died when he was a kid, should he have been taken away from his mum and been indentured to a farm halfway up a mountain in the middle of the country or on the other side of the world? (Both things happened to kids of single parents in CH and the UK during his childhood).

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If you now want to move the goalposts and so limit the discussion to "any conscious decision to have a baby (prior to it)" then in reality you are probably limiting the discussion to only include a minority of children.
Indeed, opposite-sex couples are often having little surprises they didnít plan for. Same-sex couples do not.
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  #289  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:06
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Re: Vote September 26th

I see that some posts are being deleted. Allegedly OT.

Not impressed.
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  #290  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:11
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I was raised by a single mother, saw my father perhaps 5 times over the next 20 years. I cut all ties with him and written him out of my Swiss will (to the extent I can)

I would not have contact with such a person either.
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  #291  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:15
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Slightly too honest for your own good, if I'm being kind.
I read this 5 times and still don't know what this is supposed to mean.
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  #292  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:25
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I see that some posts are being deleted. Allegedly OT.

Not impressed.
Very OT...And i was one of the culprits.
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  #293  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:48
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I see that some posts are being deleted. Allegedly OT.

Not impressed.
Not allegedly - they very much were. I was also the recipient of some deletions in response to TC, and fair enough honestly - was nothing to do with the vote we just had.

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I read this 5 times and still don't know what this is supposed to mean.
Thanks, do keep us updated.
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  #294  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:58
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I think that someone who canít let another live their life as they choose is a bit of a shit.
I don't think anyone in the whole thread has objected to anyone living their life as they choose - it's the part where they feel they have the right over others children's lifes that's the problem.

Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.

---
I hope no-one is offended by this so they don't have to delete my post Enjoy the circle jerk.
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  #295  
Old 28.09.2021, 11:05
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I don't think anyone in the whole thread has objected to anyone living their life as they choose - it's the part where they feel they have the right over others children's lifes that's the problem.

Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.

---
I hope no-one is offended by this so they don't have to delete my post
Who is being forced, anywhere?

It is incredibly difficult to adopt here, as (hetero) friends of mine have found, much to their sadness.

Gay people being allowed to go through the adoption process is expressly NOT the same as gay people being allowed to walk into a boutique and demand that they receive children, as many people on here seem to be inferring.

Everyone, gay or straight, will still be vetted to the nth degree (as of course they should be) to ensure the child's welfare. Fortunately, the only difference now is that sexuality is not a determining factor in whether someone could potentially be a suitable parent.
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  #296  
Old 28.09.2021, 11:06
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Who is being forced, anywhere?

It is incredibly difficult to adopt here, as (hetero) friends of mine have found, much to their sadness.

Gay people being allowed to go through the adoption process is expressly NOT the same as gay people being allowed to walk into a boutique and demand that they receive children, as many people on here seem to be inferring.

Everyone, gay or straight, will still be vetted to the nth degree (as of course they should be) to ensure the child's welfare. Fortunately, the only difference now is that sexuality is not a determining factor in whether someone could potentially be a suitable parent.
Implying, obvs.
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Old 28.09.2021, 11:07
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I don't think anyone in the whole thread has objected to anyone living their life as they choose - it's the part where they feel they have the right over others children's lifes that's the problem.

Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.

---
I hope no-one is offended by this so they don't have to delete my post Enjoy the circle jerk.

You are determined aren't you.
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  #298  
Old 28.09.2021, 11:16
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.
But it's not even a similar situation. Single parent (for whatever reason) and a same sex couple is hardly similar.
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  #299  
Old 28.09.2021, 11:26
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I don't think anyone in the whole thread has objected to anyone living their life as they choose - it's the part where they feel they have the right over others children's lifes that's the problem.

Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.

---
I hope no-one is offended by this so they don't have to delete my post Enjoy the circle jerk.
I'm not offended, but it's hoping in vain to express that idea in public and not get shunned into oblivion. Just open your eyes and count the divorced and recomposed families among work colleagues, friends and acquaintances. You just called "non-ideal" to half the people with kids out there.
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Old 28.09.2021, 11:40
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I don't think anyone in the whole thread has objected to anyone living their life as they choose - it's the part where they feel they have the right over others children's lifes that's the problem.

Single parents, divorced, widowed etc. All are unfortunate situations and are often unavoidable. They are less than the ideal for raising children but it's not a reason to force more children into similar situations.
How is a child being adopted into a loving family with two parents who love and care for them in any way a similar situation?
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