English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Vote September 26th (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/305763-vote-september-26th.html)

jamon8 11.09.2021 22:20

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ennui (Post 3347569)
The other poster was comparing biological heterosexual parents to same sex adoptive (hence strangers), and I think it is just one possible comparison and not exactly a fair comparison. In an adoptive Situation, potential parents could be heterosexual or same sex. If the parents are in a stable, loving relationship, I think same sex should be allowed to adopt as well as heterosexual.

Iíd say in any configuration biological parents would be preferential. But difficult to prove without sufficient statistics and difficulties to define the outcome.

olygirl 11.09.2021 22:29

Re: Vote September 26th
 
If one of your children were gay, in a loving relationship and wanted to adopt a child, would you really have the heart to deny their request by voting no on Sept 26?

ennui 11.09.2021 22:36

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamon8 (Post 3347577)
Iíd say in any configuration biological parents would be preferential. But difficult to prove without sufficient statistics and difficulties to define the outcome.

If the idea of this vote is that biological parents are better than adoptive ones, that seems weird to me.

Tom1234 11.09.2021 22:40

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamon8 (Post 3347577)
Iíd say in any configuration biological parents would be preferential. But difficult to prove without sufficient statistics and difficulties to define the outcome.

What do you mean by preferential?

Is that your preference?

Is it the preference as described in the bible?

It's certainly the preference of the Taliban.

What exactly are you trying to say? We're all adults here. How about you stop beating about the bush and say what you really mean?

vushka 11.09.2021 22:40

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Humanoid (Post 3347570)
But do all, 100% of gay couples deserve to be denied the possibility of adoption without even considering their specific scenario (in which case they would go thorough far more scrutinizing legal procedure than any heterosexual couple does)?

Itís not about denying gay adults their desires; instead itís about focusing on what is best for the children.

It's my belief that the traditional nuclear family is the best model for children and by allowing gay people to adopt itís systematically denying children that opportunity.

Tom1234 11.09.2021 22:49

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vushka (Post 3347585)
Itís not about denying gay adults their desires; instead itís about focusing on what is best for the children.

It's my belief that the traditional nuclear family is the best model for children and by allowing gay people to adopt itís systematically denying children that opportunity.

If the children need to be adopted then they're hardly in that 'traditional nuclear family', are they?
Maybe the children just want to be in a family who will love them and care for them?

olygirl 11.09.2021 22:50

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vushka (Post 3347585)
Itís not about denying gay adults their desires; instead itís about focusing on what is best for the children.

It's my belief that the traditional nuclear family is the best model for children and by allowing gay people to adopt itís systematically denying children that opportunity.

Thatís the crux of the matter: our beliefs.

My belief is that Just because you can father a child, certainly doesnít guarantee youíll make a good father. Same with mothers. Weíve all known cases of poor parenting. Iím presently dealing with a case where a child has lost her father and her mother is dying of cancer. There are no guarantees anf if a gay couple could offer a child a warm and loving environment, I certainly have no moral right to deny anyone of that opportunity.

komsomolez 11.09.2021 22:56

Re: Vote September 26th
 
I always had the impression that there was a long line of qualified couples applying to adopt a child, and thankfully not that many children who required adoption. Assuming this is the case and everything else being equal, I believe it serves the children better to get a mother and a father.

vushka 11.09.2021 23:00

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3347592)
If the children need to be adopted then they're hardly in that 'traditional nuclear family', are they?

Right, and if they're adopted by a gay couple then they will never even have the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 3347592)
Maybe the children just want to be in a family who will love them and care for them?

I agree it's probably better than nothing, but I still think a traditional family unit would be ideal.

logo123 11.09.2021 23:56

Re: Vote September 26th
 
As long as the child has a loving set of parents and a loving home, it does not matter.....why do we keep losing sight of what matters and focusing on inane culture wars...... live and let live....life is lived in the middle....neither the crazy right nor the loony left..... Love is Love.

mikedragos 12.09.2021 00:39

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3347017)
I will be voting YES to same sex marriages. Some of the homophobic posters from the NO campaign are quite disgusting. Sadly, gay bashing happens far too frequently - particularly in Zurich.

Why do you think the no campaign is hompophobic?
on the contrary, I could deduct the same for the yes campaign to be heterophobic. And quite disgusting, too.

nickatbasel 12.09.2021 00:48

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedragos (Post 3347653)
Why do you think the no campaign is hompophobic?
on the contrary, I could deduct the same for the yes campaign to be heterophobic. And quite disgusting, too.

You have a problem with LGBTQ+? What is disgusting about such people?

nickatbasel 12.09.2021 00:50

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vushka (Post 3347585)
Itís not about denying gay adults their desires; instead itís about focusing on what is best for the children.

It's my belief that the traditional nuclear family is the best model for children and by allowing gay people to adopt itís systematically denying children that opportunity.

And gay couples cannot raise a family? Is that what you are saying?

mikedragos 12.09.2021 00:52

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HickvonFrick (Post 3347324)
Well in general 2 is probably better than 1 (at least for the parent!), but I don't think sexuality really matters at all.

How about 3, 4 or 5?

Surely better than 1 or two?

mikedragos 12.09.2021 00:54

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3347660)
You have a problem with LGBTQ+? What is disgusting about such people?

You have a problem with straight people?

What is disgusting about such people?

komsomolez 12.09.2021 01:20

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3347017)
I will be voting YES to same sex marriages. Some of the homophobic posters from the NO campaign are quite disgusting. Sadly, gay bashing happens far too frequently - particularly in Zurich.

Not sure there is "gay bashing" here, but questions about adoptions.

nickatbasel 12.09.2021 06:09

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3347674)
Not sure there is "gay bashing" here, but questions about adoptions.

Given you just got groaned at by someone who thinks heterosexuals are disadvantaged in society, I am not so sure.

vushka 12.09.2021 08:00

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatbasel (Post 3347662)
And gay couples cannot raise a family? Is that what you are saying?

No, I'm saying that in my opinion I think the traditional family is the best model for children and ideally those adopted would benefit from having a mother and a father.

zookeeperash 12.09.2021 15:42

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedragos (Post 3347653)
Why do you think the no campaign is hompophobic?
on the contrary, I could deduct the same for the yes campaign to be heterophobic. And quite disgusting, too.


The no campaign is homophobic as it compares (in one instance) us (yes, I'm gay) to slave drivers, as we'll be "using" women to create babies if it goes through. It's not a direct homophobic slur in itself, but its very essence comes from a place of homophobia.
And if you think the Yes campaign is heterophobic, then I suggest you look up the definition, as it does nothing to slate or damage heterosexual people, it's only trying to promote marriage equality (which I'm pretty certain isn't going to harm anyone). Futhermore, if you find the images on the poster "disgusting", then I think you may be a bit homophobic yourself ;-)

ennui 12.09.2021 15:51

Re: Vote September 26th
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3347600)
I always had the impression that there was a long line of qualified couples applying to adopt a child, and thankfully not that many children who required adoption. Assuming this is the case and everything else being equal, I believe it serves the children better to get a mother and a father.

Is that the case in Switzerland? I know that in the US there are plenty of takers for babies, but older children, kids with disabilities and sometimes mixed race kids are not as desirable.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:50.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0