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Old 10.09.2021, 11:46
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Vote September 26th

Since the discussion already started in another thread, I think it makes sense to have a dedicated thread.

So, two questions will be voted:

- 99% initiative - higher taxes on dividends, rents and royalty
- LGBT marriages

The first one is likely to fail. The second one is likely to pass, considering preliminary polls’ results.
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Old 10.09.2021, 11:53
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Re: Vote September 26th

99% - 37% yes
Marriage - 62% yes
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Old 10.09.2021, 12:21
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Re: Vote September 26th

So 99% is an initiative and requires both popular vote and cantonal majority to pass, correct? The marriage vote is a referendum, that passes with popular vote only?

Always confusing.
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Old 10.09.2021, 12:30
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Re: Vote September 26th

Correct.
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Old 10.09.2021, 12:34
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Re: Vote September 26th

LGBT marriage = higher taxes for them? Just like for Heterosexual married couples?
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Old 10.09.2021, 12:41
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Re: Vote September 26th

I'm open to good arguments on both votes but as things are now I'm planning to vote no to the 99% thing and yes to the marriage thing.
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Old 10.09.2021, 12:42
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Re: Vote September 26th

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LGBT marriage = higher taxes for them? Just like for Heterosexual married couples?
Don't they already pay the same tax as married couples if they have this "eingetragene Partnerschaft"? And it is not necessarily higher either.
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Old 10.09.2021, 13:03
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Re: Vote September 26th

While I'm all for a more equal wealth distribution, this initiative is too " schwammig" for my taste. Afaik there's no definition at what level they want to apply those measures. Like amogles said, I'm open to good arguments.

I'm not a homophobic ..... so will of course be voting yes on the other issue.
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Old 10.09.2021, 13:27
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Re: Vote September 26th

I would vote 'Yes' for the LGBT marriage except I don't agree with the adoption of children by same sex couples so will vote 'No'
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  #10  
Old 10.09.2021, 13:51
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I would vote 'Yes' for the LGBT marriage except I don't agree with the adoption of children by same sex couples so will vote 'No'


That's really too bad.
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Old 11.09.2021, 09:57
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Since the discussion already started in another thread, I think it makes sense to have a dedicated thread.

So, two questions will be voted:

- 99% initiative - higher taxes on dividends, rents and royalty
- LGBT marriages

The first one is likely to fail. The second one is likely to pass, considering preliminary polls’ results.
I'd abandon marriage entirely and just have civil ceremonies. Martin Luther (reformation) considered marriage to be nothing to do with the church, rather a state issue. What is it with the word marriage that gets people inflamed anyway? I've no problem with gay folk adopting. Better a loving parent or two, than none.

The 99% initiative seems ok at first glance, but how much will it actually raise? Is it not just gesture politics/politics of envy? It seems some people think passive income is immoral. I'm pretty sure if they had some, they might think otherwise!

I'm concerned about the idea of adding a multiplier to income - is that done anywhere else in the tax system? Could it set a precedent? I wonder how it will work in Basel Land, where dividends often have a 0.5 multiplier!

The 100K threshold seems a little low, since many salaries are above that.

Finally - why dividends and interest? Why not levy a surcharge on all passive income, like rent?
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Old 11.09.2021, 10:24
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Re: Vote September 26th

Would say for a kid to be raised in the best possible way, ratings would be like this?

No. 1- Mum and Dad
No. 2- Gay couple
No. 3- Single Parent

Obviously, loving parent(s) trump unloving parent(s) and a lot of single or gay couples will do a much better job than hetero couples.
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Old 11.09.2021, 12:51
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Would say for a kid to be raised in the best possible way, ratings would be like this?

No. 1- Mum and Dad
No. 2- Gay couple
No. 3- Single Parent

Obviously, loving parent(s) trump unloving parent(s) and a lot of single or gay couples will do a much better job than hetero couples.
Well in general 2 is probably better than 1 (at least for the parent!), but I don't think sexuality really matters at all.
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Old 11.09.2021, 13:20
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Would say for a kid to be raised in the best possible way, ratings would be like this?

No. 1- Mum and Dad
No. 2- Gay couple
No. 3- Single Parent

Obviously, loving parent(s) trump unloving parent(s) and a lot of single or gay couples will do a much better job than hetero couples.
I’d say 1&2 are equal, then 3. But a good single parent trumps a miserable couple. I think that’s why they call it marriage equality.
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Old 11.09.2021, 16:47
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Re: Vote September 26th

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I’d say 1&2 are equal, then 3. But a good single parent trumps a miserable couple. I think that’s why they call it marriage equality.
An opinion, that for a kid’s wellbeing, to be raised by own mother and father is equal as by two strangers looks really odd to me.
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Old 11.09.2021, 16:59
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Re: Vote September 26th

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An opinion, that for a kid’s wellbeing, to be raised by own mother and father is equal as by two strangers looks really odd to me.
Well, shortly after they are adopted, they are hardly strangers anymore. They become the parents.

Perfect example: https://6abc.com/paige-zezulka-ivey-...-good/4101643/

And I’m not crying, it’s just that we used onions for lunch, and it’s raining into my face right now.
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Old 11.09.2021, 21:47
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Re: Vote September 26th

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An opinion, that for a kid’s wellbeing, to be raised by own mother and father is equal as by two strangers looks really odd to me.
But that‘s not necessarily the comparison….could be adoptive vs adoptive, or one biological different vs same sex.
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Old 11.09.2021, 16:21
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Would say for a kid to be raised in the best possible way, ratings would be like this?

No. 1- Mum and Dad
No. 2- Gay couple
No. 3- Single Parent

Obviously, loving parent(s) trump unloving parent(s) and a lot of single or gay couples will do a much better job than hetero couples.
Having done #1 and #3, I still have a problem with #2 insofar as that until they come up with a way to produce a child in a viable and useful manner that does not involve a man and a woman, such children will always have a problem not knowing who their parents are or were, which every person has a right to know.

Someone with two mothers still has a father somewhere, same with someone with two fathers.

Tom
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Old 11.09.2021, 16:28
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Having done #1 and #3, I still have a problem with #2 insofar as that until they come up with a way to produce a child in a viable and useful manner that does not involve a man and a woman, such children will always have a problem not knowing who their parents are or were, which every person has a right to know.

Someone with two mothers still has a father somewhere, same with someone with two fathers.

Tom
Yes, but that happens with adopted children all the time. It does not matter the gender or orientation of the parents.
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Old 11.09.2021, 16:28
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Re: Vote September 26th

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Having done #1 and #3, I still have a problem with #2 insofar as that until they come up with a way to produce a child in a viable and useful manner that does not involve a man and a woman, such children will always have a problem not knowing who their parents are or were, which every person has a right to know.

Someone with two mothers still has a father somewhere, same with someone with two fathers.

Tom
Plenty of people in the #3 scenario have no idea who their father is.

And surely if you are happy for a child to be adopted by a couple who aren't biologically related to the child, then it hardly makes a difference in terms of the child's knowledge of its biological parents whether that couple are gay or straight.
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