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Old 31.10.2021, 15:50
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Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

This referendum is a big one….

Yes= we accept the government’s mandate

On 28 November 2021, Swiss voters will be asked whether they accept laws passed by the government on 19 March 2021 that paved the way for the introduction of Switzerland’s Covid certificate, a system that provides proof of vaccination, recovery or a negative test.

Many Swiss feel the mandatory certificates are a step too far and are demanding change. They are talking about a society divided and and an overstepping of the government. Get ready to see a plethora of posters and signs pointing fingers and portraying a feeling of darkness and oppression.

If the referendum is rejected:

What happens if the law is rejected?

If the law is rejected, the amendments adopted by parliament in spring will be revoked as of March 19, 2022, one year after they were adopted, according to the federal constitution. So there would no longer be a legal basis for issuing and inspecting Covid certificates. The initiators of the referendum are, however, in favour of a voluntary Covid certificate to facilitate travel abroad.

Financial support for big events would also end next spring. The government managed to avert a plan to end supplementary daily allowances for the unemployed and the option to prolong the right to furlough payments to 24 months.

Finally, the government will no longer be permitted to launch funding programmes for the development of drugs or other important medical goods.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/fate-of...t-box/47024402
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Last edited by olygirl; 31.10.2021 at 20:38.
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Old 31.10.2021, 15:57
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

For a little expectation management, latest polling from SRF and Tagi/Tamedia is of the order 63 - 37 yes (IIRC Tagi sllightly higher yes).
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:01
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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Get ready to see a plethora of posters and signs pointing fingers and portraying a feeling of darkness and oppression.
Indeed. Pissing contest between radical antivaxxers with victim syndrome and fanatic provaxxers with martyr complex. Get your popcorn ready.
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:03
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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Indeed. Pissing contest between radical antivaxxers with victim syndrome and fanatic provaxxers with martyr complex. Get your popcorn ready.
Or check that your common sense is intact
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:08
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

The challenge will be those abstaining. If you have a vote, please use it.
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:16
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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The challenge will be those abstaining. If you have a vote, please use it.
Depends on how you plan to vote.

Seriously, regardless of the subject. opinion or the outcome, I'd rather people did use their vote if they have one. I hate that so many people just don't bother.
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:29
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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The challenge will be those abstaining. If you have a vote, please use it.
Have used mine - and am pretty convinced that the majority of people with common sense will have voted in the same way i.e. stop this pandemic
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:40
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

I’m going to vote yes as we really need to get to the end of this pandemic.

At the same time, I’m also concerned about the people who are not anti-vaxxers, but who either cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons or who are vaccinated but have had a very strong reaction to the vaccine.
There’s no viable answer unfortunately.
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:47
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

It's going to be interesting how turnout is going to be. Judging by the campaign posters, the NO side is mobilizing a lot anf the YES side might be a bit complacent in relying on the first poll.

The other two votes are certainly not going to create massive turnout.
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Old 31.10.2021, 16:51
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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I’m going to vote yes as we really need to get to the end of this pandemic.
This pandemic is going to end when 90%+ of the population have acquired immunity by infection and/or vaccination. It is hubris pretending that the March 21 changes to the Covid law will achieve anything like this. Who is not vaccinated until now, will most likely never be going to be.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:31
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

The thread title is a little misleading. The vote is not pro or anti Covid, but pro or anti the current version of the emergency law on Covid.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:36
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

I'm quoting this although 3Wishes posted it over on the other thread, here:
https://www.englishforum.ch/3359999-post427.html

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There's a vote coming up on Covid measures and I'm confused. Can someone please clarify, what does a Yes vote mean?

Is it 1 or 2?
1 - Yes = Let's keep these measures or
2 - Yes = No, let's NOT keep these measures

Does it have any impact on future measures depending on how the winter goes with Covid?

Thanks!
and I'm going to try to offer a bit more background.

To get a law passed, in Switzerland, various governmental and political bodies go through a long process, including voting. The supreme authority of the Swiss confederation lies in the Federal Assembly, which comprises two chambers, the National Council and the Council of States.
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1999/404/en#art_148
That authority, however, is always subject to the rights and will of the people.

However, in an emergency, the Federal Assembly alone - without consulting the people, otherwise unheard of, in Switzerland - can go ahead and make a new law and put it into immediate effect. That makes sense for emergencies, yet it stands to reason that such a hurried law cannot be regarded as having the same longterm standing as a law promulgated through the normal drafting and voting process of laws in general. For this reason, the maximum duration of any emergency law is limited. This is set out in Art. 165 Para. 1 of the Swiss constitution:
1 Federal acts whose coming into force cannot be delayed (emergency federal acts) may be declared urgent by an absolute majority of the members of each of the two Councils and be brought into force immediately. Such acts must be of limited duration.
The ways that an emergency law can be made permanent or else can be limited or stopped (for example if the emergency is no longer of such great urgency) are set out in Para. 2., 3. and 4. They have lead to the referenda.

2 If a referendum is requested on an emergency federal act, the act must be repealed one year after being passed by the Federal Assembly if it has not in the meantime been approved by the People.

3 An emergency federal act that does not have the Constitution as its basis must be repealed one year after being passed by the Federal Assembly if it has not in the meantime been approved by the People and the Cantons. Any such act must be of limited duration.

4 An emergency federal act that is not approved in a popular vote may not be renewed.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1999/404/en#art_165
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:37
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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The thread title is a little misleading. The vote is not pro or anti Covid, but pro or anti the current version of the emergency law on Covid.
Right. So, voting "No" is pro Covid in my book.

-DM
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:37
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

Because of the time it takes to getting voting procedures into place and ballot papers issued, the vote of 13th June 2021 was about the law as it stood before the change of 19th March 2021.

Subsequently, a new referendum was called against the changes of 19th March 2021.The upcoming vote on 28. November 2021 is therefore about the changes of 19th March.

Some of the arguments against the law are economic, and others are about personal freedom, and others are about simplifying the framework of laws when something seems to have become largely obsolete.

Economic
The law of 19th March 2021 allows for considerable financial advances, loans, subsidies and extended benefits for many companies and for certain types of employees. In some areas, the financing is to come from the Federal and in others from the Cantonal authorities, and in some cases both.
Those against these measures say that they were certainly a good idea, to start with, while the crisis was at its worst and the situation unstable and unforeseeable, but that such financial support is unsustainable because it will, on an ongoing basis, put a strain on the government's fund and result in massive cuts on spending and/or higher taxes, which in turn puts a strain on the economy as a whole. As such, they argue, the emergency measures will no longer just be saving some ailing businesses but will end up driving even more into bankruptcy.

Personal Freedom
The law of 19th March 2021 allows for contract tracing to be put into place, and for the Federation to fund the software development and implementation. It seems, now, that the apps for contact tracing have never really worked. Partly that was to do with software errors, and partly to do with the fact that many people preferred not to register, anyway, because they did not want their movements to be tracked. Thirdly, there is some debate about what, exactly, to do with the information, once it has been collected, and whether informing anyone that they've been somewhere where someone else was Covid positive, is actually useful, given that people are mobile and that the asymptomatic incubation time can be quite long.

Even so, the law provides for money can be made available to make a more comprehensive contact tracing system. Some people disagree with the spending, and others just don't want to be monitored, neither where they go, nor with whom they meet.

Simplifying the framework of laws
In September 2020, when the emergency law was first passed, there were real reasons to put in security measures, as best possible, against the possibility that those huge, terrible waves of people dying, such as were seen in northern Italy or in New York, would roll over the whole of the world.

Now, just over a year later, and even bracketing out the Covid denialists, life really is slowly getting back to normal, and many wish they could just be done with all the measures already. Some believe that this would be best achieved by a clear YES, to mandate the Federal and Canton governments to put in place whatever measures they deem necessary so infection rates drop, while others believe that a NO is needed because the costs, of various kinds, of the measures themselves, are too high.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:40
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

This is how parliament voted on the changes in March:



https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/do...-gesetzes.html

For reference, the SVP fraction is 55 strong in Nationalrat and 7 in Ständerat. More hypocrits.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:48
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

What happens if "yes" wins? Will the law be extended with no specified end date or defined exit criteria?

In that case, a "no" vote makes most sense.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:52
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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Finally, the government will no longer be permitted to launch funding programmes for the development of drugs or other important medical goods.
On the face of it, it seems to be a big win to Pharma. Seems a bit odd.


What does this mean? And what's the rationale?
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:54
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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What happens if "yes" wins? Will the law be extended with no specified end date or defined exit criteria?

In that case, a "no" vote makes most sense.
As I understand it,
  • if NO wins, then the law continues as it stands until its natural expiration date (given that it is merely an emergency law) in March 2022.
  • if YES wins, then it is regarded as fully in force (no longer merely an emergency law) and the Federal authorities can then use all the authority granted to it by the law, indefinitely, including modifying its contents, as they have done in stages since they first passed it a year go.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:56
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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As I understand it,
  • if NO wins, then the law continues as it stands until its natural expiration date (given that it is merely an emergency law) in March 2022.
  • if YES wins, then it is regarded as fully in force (no longer merely an emergency law) and the Federal authorities can then use all the authority granted to it by the law, indefinitely, including modifying its contents, as they have done in stages since they first passed it a year go.
I'm not against Covid measures but in that case, I would vote NO. Emergency laws are for an emergency situation and should be treated as such.
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Old 31.10.2021, 17:57
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Re: Swiss Anti-Covid Referendum Nov 28 2021

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What happens if "yes" wins? Will the law be extended with no specified end date or defined exit criteria?

In that case, a "no" vote makes most sense.
How does it make sense?

Nobody wants these laws to go past longer than they have to, that is not the aim of the government. Voting “no” will only prolong things.
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