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Old 05.03.2022, 09:44
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Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?

Any thought
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Old 05.03.2022, 09:56
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

The answer is literally a 5 second google of "switzerland neutrality russia" away https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...ussia/47388280
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Old 05.03.2022, 10:01
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? Do you really expect Switzerland to stand by and do nothing in this case? What Putin is doing goes against everything the Swiss believe in.
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Old 05.03.2022, 10:15
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality?
Yes, neutrality is precisely that.

Tom
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Old 05.03.2022, 10:17
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? Do you really expect Switzerland to stand by and do nothing in this case? What Putin is doing goes against everything the Swiss believe in.
Switzerland has not given up its neutrality.

It has make its own decision to implement sanctions against another government as it believes it is the right thing to do.
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Old 05.03.2022, 11:10
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?

Any thought
I hope Chuff‘s answer was good for you in that link. You are Chinese so I have a question for you. What do you think of your leaders secretly negotiating with Putin and Russia about invading Ukraine way before it went ahead?
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Old 05.03.2022, 11:22
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?

Any thought
You link faith in Swiss banks to neutrality? Open your eyes, see what is going on in Ukraine and then it would be clear why the Swiss have made exactly the right decision.
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Old 05.03.2022, 12:11
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

It is much more difficult for Switzerland to be neutral for 2 reasons:
- The world is much more unipolar so you care for the bigger power.
- Modern warfare is not boots on the ground but electrons, which is somehow much more socially acceptable but still very damaging, so better "behave"...

And as for faith in banks, I don't think a lot of people fear about their chf deposits at a swiss bank (perhaps the few people on the bad list...).
It will however keep the monetary authorities and sovereign wealth managers around the world thinking about what to do with their $/€/...
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Old 05.03.2022, 12:25
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

Moreover, the term "neutrality" doesn't really mean what most people imagine.

Switzerland is associated with the EU through a series of bilateral treaties in which Switzerland has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market.

Also, NATO and Switzerland actively cooperate in many areas.

So when one says "neutral" it doesn't mean that the Swiss don't know where they stand. It should be clear to everyone, Switzerland stands with the West, no question.
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Old 05.03.2022, 12:37
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?

Any thought
Like Ireland, Sweden and Finland, Switzerland has always been ‘neutral in favour of the west’.

Although Ireland, Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral as the EU treaties includes includes a similar mutual assistance clause like NATO.
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Old 05.03.2022, 12:48
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? ....
It's a bit different when Switzerland in WWII was like the Ukraine in 2022.
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Old 05.03.2022, 13:30
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

Switzerland has aligned itself fully or partly with EU sanctions 11 times since 1998, and had only refused to apply them three times - one of those concerned the annexation of Crimea.

This isn't anything new really. And Switzerland hasn't given up its neutrality.
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Old 05.03.2022, 15:49
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Yes, neutrality is precisely that.
Wrong.

Under the laws of armed conflict, with the current sanctions imposed on Russia, Switzerland was relatively late to the party.

Probably because it was checking the small print carefully to ensure that the sanctions it imposed on Russia did not violate the terms of it's neutral status.
They don't. Commerce can still occur, or not, between a neutral and a belligerent state.

However, and this is where you are so wrong, Switzerland was not neutral in the last war as it supplied guns and ammunition to Nazi Germany.
Providing arms, ammunition, tanks etc to a side in a conflict is strictly forbidden, whatever justification is used.
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Old 05.03.2022, 16:06
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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I hope Chuff‘s answer was good for you in that link. You are Chinese so I have a question for you. What do you think of your leaders secretly negotiating with Putin and Russia about invading Ukraine way before it went ahead?
How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.

Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist.
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Old 05.03.2022, 16:32
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.

Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist.
Stop playing the racist card. That is easy when you don‘t have an answer.

The question from Hausamsee is a valid one I think. You can answer it or not, that does not make him a racist (and he isn‘t one).
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Old 05.03.2022, 16:44
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there?
I see your point and yet Putin made the trip to China to meet President Xi Jinping and there's intelligence reports that China knew about the plans.
So it's not really facebook rumours, it's a bit more solid than that. Unfortunately.
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Old 05.03.2022, 16:48
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

Because you can’t stay neutral. You either impose sanctions, or if you do nothing you are supporting Putin. Switzerland was under a lot of pressure from its own people and the EU to impose sanctions.
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Old 05.03.2022, 17:35
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.

Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist.
It’s very relevant as far as I see it and the chance of you understanding critical intelligent political conversation based on your posts here are zero if I‘m honest. If you disagree with my point then have a go at answering the question..
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Old 05.03.2022, 18:38
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

Neutral does not mean you cannot attack those who attack you. The invasion of Ukraine is an attack on democracy. It makes the worlds a less safe place. A less safe place for Switzerland as well.

The comparison with WW2 is interesting. There it was in the interests of Switzerland to supply weaponry in order to help remain an independent state. Unlike Austria who welcomed the Nazis in. If there had been secure supply chains to the Allies, I'm sure that that Switzerland would have quite happily supplied arms there as well.

I'm sure the invasion was deliberately held off until after the Olympics (which are at utter travesty and have, I think, been exposed as the moral wreck they always have been). There has been intelligence that the Chinese knew about the invasion beforehand, but I suspect they didn't - because it doesn't in anyway I can see help China in their aims.
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Old 05.03.2022, 18:50
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Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian

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Neutral does not mean you cannot attack those who attack you. The invasion of Ukraine is an attack on democracy. It makes the worlds a less safe place. A less safe place for Switzerland as well.
Attacking another country, however unsavoury, is not attacking you.
The current sanctions do not affect Switzerland's neutral status.

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The comparison with WW2 is interesting. There it was in the interests of Switzerland to supply weaponry in order to help remain an independent state. Unlike Austria who welcomed the Nazis in. If there had been secure supply chains to the Allies, I'm sure that that Switzerland would have quite happily supplied arms there as well.
.
You can dress it up anyway you want but the fact that Switzerland supplies arms and ammunition to Nazi German means it was, in the strictest terms, not neutral.

As you seem to be having trouble understanding this concept - you mentioned that Switzerland acted like it did in WWII to remain an independent state.
Perhaps, as you say, the current conflict is making Switzerland less safe, how would you feel if they supplied weapons to Russia, in the same way?
Would they still be neutral?
If not, what's the difference between Ukraine, and Poland?
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