 | | | 
05.03.2022, 09:44
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Zurich
Posts: 76
Groaned at 75 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts
| | Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?
Any thought
| The following 5 users would like to thank ILikeEScooter for this useful post: | | The following 18 users groan at ILikeEScooter for this post: | araqyl, cinzia_t, greenmount, grumpygrapefruit, Hausamsee, hellacopters, HomesickAlready, jamon8, Jim2007, Karl, Meh, Never TheLess, Papa Goose, saiya-jin, st2lemans, suissa, Susie-Q, TinyK | 
05.03.2022, 09:56
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,275
Groaned at 1,482 Times in 976 Posts
Thanked 21,732 Times in 8,296 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
The answer is literally a 5 second google of "switzerland neutrality russia" away https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...ussia/47388280 | The following 7 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 10:01
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: near Langenthal, BE
Posts: 1,016
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 1,190 Times in 516 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? Do you really expect Switzerland to stand by and do nothing in this case? What Putin is doing goes against everything the Swiss believe in.
| The following 9 users would like to thank swisscanmom for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 10:15
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,944
Groaned at 2,968 Times in 2,056 Posts
Thanked 41,312 Times in 19,538 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? | | | | | Yes, neutrality is precisely that.
Tom
| The following 13 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | Aleydis, aSwissInTheUS, Axa, EPMike, gaburko, Hausamsee, IronAngle, MidfieldGeneral, Muniek, NotAllThere, rastapopulus, summergirl, Urs Max | The following 3 users groan at st2lemans for this post: | | 
05.03.2022, 10:17
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Nyon
Posts: 8,779
Groaned at 559 Times in 415 Posts
Thanked 12,258 Times in 5,718 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? Do you really expect Switzerland to stand by and do nothing in this case? What Putin is doing goes against everything the Swiss believe in. | | | | | Switzerland has not given up its neutrality.
It has make its own decision to implement sanctions against another government as it believes it is the right thing to do.
| The following 12 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post: | AbFab, araqyl, greenmount, grumpygrapefruit, JackieH, jamon8, Karl, markalex, NotAllThere, roegner, st2lemans, TinyK | 
05.03.2022, 11:10
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lucerne
Posts: 790
Groaned at 114 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,075 Times in 470 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?
Any thought | | | | | I hope Chuff‘s answer was good for you in that link. You are Chinese so I have a question for you. What do you think of your leaders secretly negotiating with Putin and Russia about invading Ukraine way before it went ahead?
| The following 3 users would like to thank Hausamsee for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 11:22
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Around and about
Posts: 223
Groaned at 9 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 221 Times in 107 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?
Any thought | | | | | You link faith in Swiss banks to neutrality? Open your eyes, see what is going on in Ukraine and then it would be clear why the Swiss have made exactly the right decision.
| The following 6 users would like to thank Never TheLess for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 12:11
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: zürich
Posts: 172
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
It is much more difficult for Switzerland to be neutral for 2 reasons:
- The world is much more unipolar so you care for the bigger power.
- Modern warfare is not boots on the ground but electrons, which is somehow much more socially acceptable but still very damaging, so better "behave"...
And as for faith in banks, I don't think a lot of people fear about their chf deposits at a swiss bank (perhaps the few people on the bad list...).
It will however keep the monetary authorities and sovereign wealth managers around the world thinking about what to do with their $/€/...
| This user would like to thank patrickk for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 12:25
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,354
Groaned at 288 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 5,705 Times in 2,253 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
Moreover, the term "neutrality" doesn't really mean what most people imagine.
Switzerland is associated with the EU through a series of bilateral treaties in which Switzerland has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market.
Also, NATO and Switzerland actively cooperate in many areas.
So when one says "neutral" it doesn't mean that the Swiss don't know where they stand. It should be clear to everyone, Switzerland stands with the West, no question.
| The following 4 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 12:37
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 6,126
Groaned at 402 Times in 287 Posts
Thanked 10,120 Times in 4,415 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | I am not talking about support or against which country.
My friends in my own country ask me why Switzerland give up neutrality and I actually do not have too much clues.
It is a decision that most Swiss support? Why Switzerland even keep neural in the World War II, but this time gives it up. How that will impact people's faith to put their money in Swiss bank in the future?
Any thought | | | | | Like Ireland, Sweden and Finland, Switzerland has always been ‘neutral in favour of the west’.
Although Ireland, Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral as the EU treaties includes includes a similar mutual assistance clause like NATO.
| 
05.03.2022, 12:48
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: https://youtu.be/JAJbqL2IMm8
Posts: 3,972
Groaned at 109 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 4,158 Times in 2,181 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Switzerland was never really neutral in WWII. They profited from both sides. Is that neutrality? .... | | | | | It's a bit different when Switzerland in WWII was like the Ukraine in 2022.
| 
05.03.2022, 13:30
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,657
Groaned at 357 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 26,464 Times in 10,803 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
Switzerland has aligned itself fully or partly with EU sanctions 11 times since 1998, and had only refused to apply them three times - one of those concerned the annexation of Crimea.
This isn't anything new really. And Switzerland hasn't given up its neutrality.
| The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 15:49
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 19,082
Groaned at 845 Times in 659 Posts
Thanked 29,513 Times in 11,958 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, neutrality is precisely that.
| | | | | Wrong.
Under the laws of armed conflict, with the current sanctions imposed on Russia, Switzerland was relatively late to the party.
Probably because it was checking the small print carefully to ensure that the sanctions it imposed on Russia did not violate the terms of it's neutral status.
They don't. Commerce can still occur, or not, between a neutral and a belligerent state.
However, and this is where you are so wrong, Switzerland was not neutral in the last war as it supplied guns and ammunition to Nazi Germany.
Providing arms, ammunition, tanks etc to a side in a conflict is strictly forbidden, whatever justification is used.
| The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | This user groans at Tom1234 for this post: | | 
05.03.2022, 16:06
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Zurich
Posts: 76
Groaned at 75 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | I hope Chuff‘s answer was good for you in that link. You are Chinese so I have a question for you. What do you think of your leaders secretly negotiating with Putin and Russia about invading Ukraine way before it went ahead? | | | | | How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.
Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist.
| This user would like to thank ILikeEScooter for this useful post: | | The following 14 users groan at ILikeEScooter for this post: | araqyl, EPMike, Flakk, greenmount, grumpygrapefruit, gwsorrells, hans1, Hausamsee, jamon8, markalex, Papa Goose, saiya-jin, st2lemans, Susie-Q | 
05.03.2022, 16:32
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,221
Groaned at 422 Times in 358 Posts
Thanked 18,017 Times in 8,215 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.
Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist. | | | | | Stop playing the racist card. That is easy when you don‘t have an answer.
The question from Hausamsee is a valid one I think. You can answer it or not, that does not make him a racist (and he isn‘t one).
| The following 12 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post: | 3Wishes, araqyl, bowlie, gaburko, greenmount, grumpygrapefruit, Hausamsee, jamon8, kri, markalex, saiya-jin, st2lemans | 
05.03.2022, 16:44
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,354
Groaned at 288 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 5,705 Times in 2,253 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? | | | | | I see your point and yet Putin made the trip to China to meet President Xi Jinping and there's intelligence reports that China knew about the plans.
So it's not really facebook rumours, it's a bit more solid than that. Unfortunately.
| The following 8 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 16:48
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wallis
Posts: 7,557
Groaned at 172 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 8,882 Times in 3,970 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
Because you can’t stay neutral. You either impose sanctions, or if you do nothing you are supporting Putin. Switzerland was under a lot of pressure from its own people and the EU to impose sanctions.
| The following 4 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 17:35
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lucerne
Posts: 790
Groaned at 114 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,075 Times in 470 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | How offensive you are!
Really? Secretly? Then how do you know? Were you there? I would prefer talking to someone who can think independently and critically, instead of just quoting some political gossips.
Also, you do not need to show off that you know I am from China. I guess this is not difficult to guess if you read my previous posts. I think where I come from is not relevant to our discussion, unless you are a racist. | | | | | It’s very relevant as far as I see it and the chance of you understanding critical intelligent political conversation based on your posts here are zero if I‘m honest. If you disagree with my point then have a go at answering the question..
| The following 3 users would like to thank Hausamsee for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 18:38
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,657
Groaned at 357 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 26,464 Times in 10,803 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian
Neutral does not mean you cannot attack those who attack you. The invasion of Ukraine is an attack on democracy. It makes the worlds a less safe place. A less safe place for Switzerland as well.
The comparison with WW2 is interesting. There it was in the interests of Switzerland to supply weaponry in order to help remain an independent state. Unlike Austria who welcomed the Nazis in. If there had been secure supply chains to the Allies, I'm sure that that Switzerland would have quite happily supplied arms there as well.
I'm sure the invasion was deliberately held off until after the Olympics (which are at utter travesty and have, I think, been exposed as the moral wreck they always have been). There has been intelligence that the Chinese knew about the invasion beforehand, but I suspect they didn't - because it doesn't in anyway I can see help China in their aims.
__________________ http://baselpanto.org/tickets
Click on the link. Think "mildly interesting". Buy ticket.... Be entertained. And enjoy the Basel Weihnachtsmarkt.
| This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
05.03.2022, 18:50
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 19,082
Groaned at 845 Times in 659 Posts
Thanked 29,513 Times in 11,958 Posts
| | Re: Why Switzerland give up neutrality in this sanction against Russian | Quote: | |  | | | Neutral does not mean you cannot attack those who attack you. The invasion of Ukraine is an attack on democracy. It makes the worlds a less safe place. A less safe place for Switzerland as well.
| | | | | Attacking another country, however unsavoury, is not attacking you.
The current sanctions do not affect Switzerland's neutral status. | Quote: | |  | | |
The comparison with WW2 is interesting. There it was in the interests of Switzerland to supply weaponry in order to help remain an independent state. Unlike Austria who welcomed the Nazis in. If there had been secure supply chains to the Allies, I'm sure that that Switzerland would have quite happily supplied arms there as well.
.
| | | | | You can dress it up anyway you want but the fact that Switzerland supplies arms and ammunition to Nazi German means it was, in the strictest terms, not neutral.
As you seem to be having trouble understanding this concept - you mentioned that Switzerland acted like it did in WWII to remain an independent state.
Perhaps, as you say, the current conflict is making Switzerland less safe, how would you feel if they supplied weapons to Russia, in the same way?
Would they still be neutral?
If not, what's the difference between Ukraine, and Poland?
| This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | This user groans at Tom1234 for this post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:03. | |