Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?] - Page 121

carver · #**2401** 28.05.2015, 22:29

newtoswitz - Please stand by your groaning, and enunciate why anyone would choose to be a banker for any reason other than greed?

carver · #**2402** 30.05.2015, 00:05

Sorry to post a Daily Mail link, but....

City trader accused of being 'ringmaster' in Libor-rigging fraud boasted: 'You want every little bit of money you can possibly get'

	Quote:
	In an audio clip relayed to the court from one of those interviews, Hayes said he was part of a system where rigging Libor was 'commonplace'.

	Quote:
	In 2007, the defendant said he made the company '50 or 49 million dollars', equivalent to £25 million, while in 2008 he claimed to have made UBS 89 million dollars, or £61 million, the prosecutor added. Over nine months in 2009, Hayes said his trades made the Swiss bank about 150 million dollars, the court heard.

	Quote:
	Mr Chawla said: 'On the first day he was trading he was making a request to get the Libor rate up.' Other chat messages between Hayes and brokers reveal him offering to supply 'copious amounts of curry' in return for fiddling the rates, it is said. 'Seriously, whatever it takes, bill me,' he said.

carver · #**2403** 30.05.2015, 00:08

Sorry to post another Daily Mail link, but.... ewww... really?

New York bankers pay their wives year-end 'performance bonuses'... IF they deserve it... Wives awarded tens of thousands of dollars based on their 'performance'

	Quote:
	When asked about whether or not the bonuses were linked to their performances in the bedroom, the wives were coy, "demurring when pressed to discuss it further".

newtoswitz · #**2404** 01.06.2015, 09:21

	Quote:	carver
	newtoswitz - Please stand by your groaning, and enunciate why anyone would choose to be a banker for any reason other than greed?

My groaning is against your prejudice and generic statements against an entire group of people who are doing a legal job which we as society require with our current financial setup. Pick a group, invent a nasty sounding term like "bankster" and then flame the lot of them - I can see why you post links from the Daily Mail.

To answer the question, exactly the same reasons anyone else has a paying job - some selection of:

* they need a salary to support their family

* because they're good at it

* because they enjoy it

* because they haven't found anything else yet

I'm assuming by "bankers" you mean specifically traders, not all the other bank staff - I've worked with quite a few, and while some are undoubtably arrogant b*****ds who think they're above the law like those in these stories, the vast majority are there to do the job serving their customers and their company.

Yes, the salaries and bonuses are unrealistic and unfair - but sadly that's simply supply and demand at the extreme end of capitalism, not unlike property prices, luxury goods and the salaries of sports stars. Let's be honest - very few of us would refuse a big payrise or bonus given the chance.

It seems to be improving, but restructuring an industry takes time, and pushing it too fast will more likely than not make the changes unsustainable.

carver · #**2405** 01.06.2015, 16:47

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	My groaning is against your prejudice and generic statements against an entire group of people who are doing a legal job which we as society require with our current financial setup. Pick a group, invent a nasty sounding term like "bankster" and then flame the lot of them

Nope. I have already explained the difference between (my definition of) a bankster and banker. We have no choice but to use money (and debt - unfortunately increasingly). The banksters use their politicians to continue to distort the monetary system in their favour.

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	I can see why you post links from the Daily Mail.

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	To answer the question, exactly the same reasons anyone else has a paying job - some selection of: * they need a salary to support their family * because they're good at it * because they enjoy it * because they haven't found anything else yet

That's just a load of reasons why most people work (those lucky enough to choose anyway). People choose to work in banking (at least mainly) for one reason: money. People like Warren Buffet are exceptions to the rule.

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	I'm assuming by "bankers" you mean specifically traders, not all the other bank staff - I've worked with quite a few, and while some are undoubtably arrogant b*****ds who think they're above the law like those in these stories, the vast majority are there to do the job serving their customers and their company. Yes, the salaries and bonuses are unrealistic and unfair - but sadly that's simply supply and demand at the extreme end of capitalism, not unlike property prices, luxury goods and the salaries of sports stars. Let's be honest - very few of us would refuse a big payrise or bonus given the chance. It seems to be improving, but restructuring an industry takes time, and pushing it too fast will more likely than not make the changes unsustainable.

Personally, I'd define dishonest traders as banksters rather than bankers.

A friend of mine is an utter genius - despite being headhunted by a bunch of bankers, he turned his back on the money and went into pure research - he's now improving humanity's lot. IMO, it's sad that - as you say - few are like him. Many of the brightest & best will go into banking rather than doing something genuinely useful.

The difference between banksters' (and bankers') salaries and things like house prices, luxury goods, and the salaries of sports stars is that one can often live elsewhere, and one is never forced to buy luxury goods or buy tickets to a football match.

Unfortunately, we all have to use money - and the banksters' political power ensures that not only are losses backstopped by the taxpayer (privatise the gains, socialise the losses) - but all these fees & bonuses from the libor & foreign currency scams, etc, etc come out of the pockets of the companies that everybody uses, ordinary mortgage payers & normal people who want to go on holiday, etc, etc. Often, it can be argued that they are stealing from all of us - with paid for impunity.

IMO, it's astonishing how little it is improving - after what is probably the biggest financial crisis in history (many millions are still feeling the effects of replacing all those bonuses & fees almost a decade later) very little has changed. This is, I feel, testimony to the banksters' political power.

dodgyken · #**2406** 01.06.2015, 16:57

Where do you stand on Chemtrails?

marton · #**2407** 01.06.2015, 17:07

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Where do you stand on Chemtrails?

I don't stand on Chemtrails, I kept falling through......

carver · #**2408** 01.06.2015, 17:19

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Where do you stand on Chemtrails?

Is that the coke that banksters leave behind in toilets?

The only difference I've noticed in CH is how circular the last few remaining military jets' vapour trails are - I joke to Swiss friends how the Swiss airforce is the best in the world at turns/circles:
- French border!! Turn!!!
10 seconds later...
- Italian border!! Turn again!!!
20 seconds later...
- German border!! Turn again!!!
Their vapour trails are pretty comical...

carver · #**2409** 01.06.2015, 21:48

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	Yes, the salaries and bonuses are unrealistic and unfair - but sadly that's simply supply and demand at the extreme end of capitalism, not unlike property prices, ....

I've been thinking a little more about this part of your post and...

I reckon there's 3 prime drivers behind the horrendous home prices that we need to spend increasing proportions of our lives working to pay off (both the huge initial debt & interest)...
1. Globalisation - admittedly the banksters & bankers aren't (entirely/directly) responsible for this, unless we include the offshoring component of the FIRE sector, selling off companies too... no, let's stop there
2. Securitisation - this is totally down to the banksters & bankers. Dicing & slicing RMBS, pumping CDOs for fees & bonuses, etc is a major contributor to housing bubbles around the world. There are too many muppets who will borrow all they possibly can, and RMBS & CDOs hugely inflate the supply of debt. More debt > higher prices > more of our working lives to pay for a home
3. Devaluation - those trillions printed out of thin air to bail out failed banking institutions have to go somewhere! -> more often than not hard assets. Again, higher prices > more debt > more of our working lives.

I'd totally guess that the increase in the price that all of us have to pay to have a home might be equally proportioned between 1,2 & 3. Would welcome any comments.

carver · #**2410** 01.06.2015, 22:52

	Quote:	newtoswitz
	Yes, the salaries and bonuses are unrealistic and unfair - but sadly that's simply supply and demand at the extreme end of capitalism

P.S. Forgot to mention - the bankster oligopoly we have now clearly isn't capitalism - let alone extreme capitalism.

One of the primary rules of capitalism is survival of the fittest. When institutions go bust, they die & cease to exist - they are then replaced by fitter, better, finer institutions - this evolution is how capitalism is supposed to work.

But the banksters threaten their politicians with armageddon if they let capitalism work as it should, to let failed institutions die. This is one of the primary reasons one can justifiably call them banksters.

marton · #**2411** 04.06.2015, 20:52

Announced today a CHF 40M payment by HSBC to Geneva, it is related to money laundering investigations.

carver · #**2412** 05.06.2015, 10:09

Purveyor of debt warns there is too much debt in the world

Telegraph link: The world is drowning in debt, warns Goldman Sachs

	Quote:
	The world is sinking under too much debt and an ageing global population means countries' debt piles are in danger of growing out of control, the European chief executive of Goldman Sachs Asset Management has warned. Andrew Wilson, head of Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA), said growing debt piles around the world posed one of the biggest threats to the global economy.

carver · #**2413** 05.06.2015, 12:49

Bloomberg: Hayes Said Ex-UBS Executive Kengeter Sat In on Libor-Fix Meeting

	Quote:
	Former trader Thomas Hayes told prosecutors that Libor manipulation was such an open secret at UBS Group AG that he discussed trying to rig the rate at a meeting attended by Carsten Kengeter, then the co-chief executive officer of the lender’s investment bank. Kengeter’s alleged attendance was part of Hayes’s comments to prosecutors during their initial investigation and introduced at his trial in London Wednesday. Libor rigging at UBS was discussed so openly that everyone must have known about it, Hayes said in the interview. “It was too widespread and open that people could be unaware,” Hayes said in the interview, read to the jury by prosecutors Wednesday. “It was so blatant.”

Carsten Kengeter is now CEO of Deutsche Börse

carver · #**2414** 25.06.2015, 17:12

This article mostly calls for the UK restricting foreign ownership of homes, similar to Switzerland. Posting it here because it's good to see the nature of money and banking being discussed in the mainstream press.

UK Guardian article (few days ago): My fix for the housing crisis: ban ownership by foreign non-residents

	Quote:
	This is how money is created – banks lend it to people, and it appears in the economy. Of this lending, 85% is on existing residential housing stock. Essentially, what looks like economic growth is simply the extension of credit to fuel a housing boom. Banks cannot lose: instead of being indebted to them for 20 years, it’s 30; or owing them three times our salary, it’s six; the very luckiest among us have wandered into a state of debt peonage to a high street bank, while the unlucky – who will never get on to the housing ladder – work to service the investments of the lucky.

Anyone interested in the power of bankers over politicians (in the UK) is encouraged to have a look at this fascinating article about the nature of the City of London:

New Statesman article (2011): The tax haven in the heart of Britain

	Quote:
	There is an institution with a murky history and remarkable powers that acts like a political and financial island within our island nation state. Welcome to the Square Mile and the City of London Corporation.

	Quote:
	“Don't tax or regulate us or we'll move to Switzerland," the bankers and hedgies cry; and all too often the politicians quail and cut taxes on the wealthy, deregulate finance further, and hand yet more freedoms to the City.

Urs Max · #**2415** 25.06.2015, 21:17

	Quote:
	Don't tax or regulate us or we'll move to Switzerland," the bankers and hedgies cry; and all too often the politicians quail and cut taxes on the wealthy, deregulate finance further, and hand yet more freedoms to the City.

Funny, as in a broader sense that's what you appear to do yourself - pick the best parts of two countries.

carver · #**2416** 25.06.2015, 23:32

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Funny, as in a broader sense that's what you appear to do yourself - pick the best parts of two countries.

Sorry, not quite sure of your point here? - would be grateful if you would expand on it.

Assuming that you're referring to choosing (picking?) the best parts of the two countries (and that we're living in a dream world), IMO it would be great if the UK was as democratic as CH - there might then be a chance of a referendum on taking the powers & benefits of money creation away from the commercial banks, and giving them to the governments & thence the people. This would - AFAICS - benefit nearly everyone. I would ask anyone interested in this subject to please see: http://www.moneyreformparty.org.uk.

Urs Max · #**2417** 26.06.2015, 09:00

You live half in the UK, half in CH, right? So you pick what you like most from those two countries, bypassing the negative stuff if possible. That's very much like a company relocating to another country for economic reason, or threatening to do so in order to get better conditions in its current location.

carver · #**2418** 26.06.2015, 10:35

	Quote:	Urs Max
	You live half in the UK, half in CH, right? So you pick what you like most from those two countries, bypassing the negative stuff if possible. That's very much like a company relocating to another country for economic reason, or threatening to do so in order to get better conditions in its current location.

Ah, so it was an ad hominem! It was such an awfully weak & tenuous one that it was hard to tell.

I guess that if I was immensely powerful & politically connected, and then used that power to change the laws of a country to suit me, then it would be fair to imply that I'm a hypocrite, as you appear to be doing.

carver · #**2419** 27.06.2015, 11:17

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Where do you stand on Chemtrails?

Sorry to post another Daily Mail article, but this one reminded me of your linking chemical trails to finance. In this case the chemical is cocaine.

It bought to my mind two questions:

Is this young banker's overconfidence solely down to the chemical, or is it in any way indicative of the over-confidence inherent in an industry where everyone is almost guaranteed immunity from prosecution?
From the article, London appears to be the capital of cocaine usage in Europe. To what extent does the apparent widespread usage of this chemical influence the bad financial decisions that in one way or another, the 99% ends up paying for?

Daily Mail article (a few days ago): The City worker filmed brazenly snorting cocaine on the London Underground

	Quote:
	The video, published by The Sun today, shows a man identified by friends as Mr Osborne screaming and shouting as he snorts the Class A drug on the tube. The film was made by a shocked fellow passenger, who Mr Osborne appears to offer the drug after commenting: 'I just like taking it'. Friends say he is employed for a data banking company in the City of London, where he moved last year after working for a stockbrokers firm.

	Quote:
	'But we see a lot of casualties of the increasing use of cocaine among City workers in their early twenties. Everybody wants cocaine – rather than ecstasy or unpredictable club drugs. They will pay over the odds for it, whatever the quality – whether it be 10% or 40%. 'If these shocking images do anything, hopefully they will make people think twice about the stark realities of drug use and what it is doing to people's lives, and those around them.' A report earlier this month named London as the cocaine capital of Europe, with the highest concentration of the drug in its waste water. Scientists found sewage in the city contained more traces of the class A drug than anywhere else surveyed. It is passed into the network in the urine of users. The amount peaks on Friday and Saturday, sampling by the Lisbon-based European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction showed. The research found levels in London slightly higher than those in Amsterdam, with 737 mg for every 1,000 people in the British capital compared to 716 mg in the Dutch city. The next city in the league was Antwerp in Belgium, at 632 mg.

carver · #**2420** 13.07.2015, 07:50

From the Independent 2 days ago: Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro

	Quote:
	A leading adviser to debt-riven countries has offered to help Athens recover some of the vast profits made by the investment bank. The Independent has learnt that a former Goldman banker, who has advised indebted governments on recovering losses made from complex transactions with banks, has written to the Greek government to advise that it has a chance of clawing back some of the hundreds of millions of dollars it paid Goldman to secure its position in the single currency.

Unfortunately, even if it happens, and the Giant Squid loses, it'll come out of the shareholders' pocket - i.e. our pension funds.

Background: Der Spiegel 2010: Greek Debt Crisis: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

	Quote:
	Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules. At some point the so-called cross currency swaps will mature, and swell the country's already bloated deficit.

	Quote:
	But in the Greek case the US bankers devised a special kind of swap with fictional exchange rates. That enabled Greece to receive a far higher sum than the actual euro market value of 10 billion dollars or yen. In that way Goldman Sachs secretly arranged additional credit of up to $1 billion for the Greeks. This credit disguised as a swap didn't show up in the Greek debt statistics. Eurostat's reporting rules don't comprehensively record transactions involving financial derivatives. "The Maastricht rules can be circumvented quite legally through swaps," says a German derivatives dealer.

Independent 3 days ago: Greek debt crisis: Meet the Goldman Sachs banker who got rich getting Greece into the euro

	Quote:
	If you thought the Goldman Sachs banker who did the deal to get Greece into the euro might have been chased out of the City of London, think again. Antigone Loudiadis, more widely known as “Addy”, has been richly rewarded by the bank for her dealmaking prowess and now sits atop one of Europe’s fastest growing insurance companies, Rothesay Life.