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  #1381  
Old 18.10.2009, 12:45
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Indirectly higher return because of very competent and comprehensive advice. Also better services and perfect infrastructure.

I have observed private banking in many countries on many continents. The Swiss are unsurpassed.
with all due respect for your opinion, goldtop, private bankers in every other jurisdiction will make the exact same claim for their own service.

as far as I can tell, there is no published evidence that Swiss bankers can earn you a higher rate of return than the others...

in fact, common sense points to quite the contrary - for decades, the swiss bankers have reaped the benefit of the vaunted swiss banking secrecy, and hence didn't really have to 'outperform' anyone ... now that banking secrecy is almost history, the playing field has been leveled and the poor swiss bankers will have to start earning their keep, just like everyone else..
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  #1382  
Old 18.10.2009, 15:17
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

According to the Newspapers today, customers (mainly businesses) are starting to move their money from the Kantonal banks, Post Office, etc. back to UBS.
Good to see confidence returning & myself I believe UBS is now safe as the Govt. have demonstrated their supprt.

However I don't know of any better benefits offered by UBS that would persuade me to move; unless there are special offers being communicated?
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  #1383  
Old 18.10.2009, 15:24
Nev
 
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Myself I favour major tracker funds with low fees;
In general, so do I, though I think some individual stocks offering a good yield like Nestlé, Roche and some of the European utility stocks can make sense when interest rates are this low and you want some growth upside.
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  #1384  
Old 18.10.2009, 15:31
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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In general, so do I, though I think some individual stocks offering a good yield like Nestlé, Roche and some of the European utility stocks can make sense when interest rates are this low and you want some growth upside.
Agreed which is why I bought Nestle early this year but I still have a lurking fear that such major companies have some dirty washing that will smash down their share price. Just to be clear I have no reason to think Nestle have; but then I also thought major banks were safe havens.
On the other hand major companies with future P/Es of 15 or less are quite fanciable, and if they are Swiss based then it takes away the currency risk to the share price
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  #1385  
Old 23.10.2009, 17:06
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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In general, so do I, though I think some individual stocks offering a good yield like Nestlé, Roche and some of the European utility stocks can make sense when interest rates are this low and you want some growth upside.
I thought that Nestle were thinking of leaving switzerland not long ago?

Now I am going to be cheeky, i know that all the finance nerds are on this thread. I really appreciate you putting up with my questions. i don't know if this is off topic or not becuase I think it may be realted to UBS in some way.

However I just read that Volcker is to tax debt? I think that it is a brilliant idea but I can't quite get my head around how it will work and the impact that it will have- any ideas?

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This is something I’ve been pushing for a while, and it’s a really good idea. As the WSJ article shows, the US, with its 39.1% corporate tax rate, manages to raise just 3.2% of GDP through corporate taxes. Meanwhile, Australia, with a 30% corporate tax rate, raises 6.6% of GDP from corporate taxes. If Volcker starts taxing debt as well as equity, that would do wonders for the US fisc, and would reduce the systemic danger that debt poses to the economy. What’s not to love?
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmo...ce-of-volcker/
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  #1386  
Old 23.10.2009, 18:27
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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However I just read that Volcker is to tax debt? I think that it is a brilliant idea but I can't quite get my head around how it will work and the impact that it will have- any ideas?
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmo...ce-of-volcker/
I don't think he's talking about taxing debt as such. As your link points out, he's floating the idea that debt interest should no longer be deductible from earnings for corporation tax. If it were implemented, companies would no longer be able to deduct from their taxable revenues the interest they pay on their debt. In a nutshell that's how it would work. The impact it would have is that the taxable earnings of companies would increase causing government tax revenues to go up.

Obviously the flipside is that this would diminish after tax returns on investments for the companies. So they would have to factor that into their pricing of projects and investments. But debt is a lot cheaper than equity as a financing tool and is non dilutive to existing shareholders so companies will still find debt attractive versus equity. The losers would be those sectors of industry who rely heavily on debt financing (banks etc) and those who grow by acquisition and who use debt to finance mergers and acquisitions.

Nerd? WTF!
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  #1387  
Old 23.10.2009, 22:05
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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I don't think he's talking about taxing debt as such. As your link points out, he's floating the idea that debt interest should no longer be deductible from earnings for corporation tax. If it were implemented, companies would no longer be able to deduct from their taxable revenues the interest they pay on their debt. In a nutshell that's how it would work. The impact it would have is that the taxable earnings of companies would increase causing government tax revenues to go up.

Obviously the flipside is that this would diminish after tax returns on investments for the companies. So they would have to factor that into their pricing of projects and investments. But debt is a lot cheaper than equity as a financing tool and is non dilutive to existing shareholders so companies will still find debt attractive versus equity. The losers would be those sectors of industry who rely heavily on debt financing (banks etc) and those who grow by acquisition and who use debt to finance mergers and acquisitions.

Nerd? WTF!
Will it curtail the growth of oligarchs?
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  #1388  
Old 23.10.2009, 22:18
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Is it any way related to the stuff in these articles:

Apologies if anyone already posted these links.

http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/...lim/#more-5242


http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
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  #1389  
Old 23.10.2009, 22:45
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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with all due respect for your opinion, goldtop, private bankers in every other jurisdiction will make the exact same claim for their own service.

as far as I can tell, there is no published evidence that Swiss bankers can earn you a higher rate of return than the others...

in fact, common sense points to quite the contrary - for decades, the swiss bankers have reaped the benefit of the vaunted swiss banking secrecy, and hence didn't really have to 'outperform' anyone ... now that banking secrecy is almost history, the playing field has been leveled and the poor swiss bankers will have to start earning their keep, just like everyone else..
My experience is a statistically insignificant sample of 1.

The return on investment is not a sufficient metric. The concurrent risk is equally important. Also the tax liability is crucial (maybe UBS was criminally smart here ).

All aspects considered, my very biased opinion is that Swiss private banking is tops.
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  #1390  
Old 24.10.2009, 06:19
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Will it curtail the growth of oligarchs?
There might be some marginal leveraged deals that fall through due to pricing. Higher tax adjusted cost of financing will mean either the purchaser accepts a lower return on his investment or bids less to try and protect his ROI (but this might not be acceptable to the seller). But in the bigger picture I think the business world would adapt to the new order though some steam might come out of the activity. Maybe some deals won't extract as much juice but they will still be profitable and the incentive to do them will still be there as long as interest rates are reasonable. As I said, it's not debt per se that would be taxed but profits. There has to be a profit or there's no tax. And at the end of play, debt, taxes and financing costs are expenses of running a business and these tend to work through to the consumer or the shareholder to shoulder. The bigger question is could the US go it alone on this. Would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
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  #1391  
Old 24.10.2009, 06:43
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Is it any way related to the stuff in these articles:

Apologies if anyone already posted these links.

http://baselinescenario.com/2009/10/...lim/#more-5242


http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
I haven't read the second article in full. What they are saying is that access credit is the key to entrepreneurial competitive success rather than cost of credit. Without credit lines an entrepreneur is sidelined. And power tends to be concentrated in the hands of the wealthy, especially in the US. I think Volker just wants to raise taxes, not bring about a new world order.
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  #1392  
Old 24.10.2009, 16:09
hoppy
 
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Well, I am not going ot pretend to understand. I will have to let it sink in slowly, I just wonder if this will only affect US companies or will it include foreign companies operating in the US. For now I have to get on with housework miffed that Volker isn't bringing about a new world older. I might contact Marvel Comics and have them do a series on Wall Street heros and villains. that's probably more my level of understanding.
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  #1393  
Old 24.10.2009, 16:21
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

I think that Volcker wants to break up the banks which is nt really in line wiht what Obama advocates but hos views maybe gathering support.

Th UK seems to be holding similar ideas. I am not sure how that bodes for UBS.


How to manage the gigantic financial cuckoo in our nest

By Martin Wolf


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97e0f540-b...nclick_check=1

This is just so much more interesting than housework!
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  #1394  
Old 24.10.2009, 17:05
Nev
 
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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I just wonder if this will only affect US companies or will it include foreign companies operating in the US.
If Volker's proposal was taken up it would only impact companies who pay tax in the US. It's not a tax on debt remember. So companies who borrowed in the US but don't pay tax there wouldn't be affected. Don't hold your breath or lose any sleep over this. It's not the first time the idea's been floated. My hunch is it's a non starter.
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  #1395  
Old 24.10.2009, 17:24
Nev
 
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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I think that Volcker wants to break up the banks which is nt really in line wiht what Obama advocates but hos views maybe gathering support.

Th UK seems to be holding similar ideas. I am not sure how that bodes for UBS.
Glass Steagall eh? This "back to the future" solution ain't going to happen. Wasn't it only last year that the US government were twisting arms to secure BofA's purchase of Merrill and JPM's acquisition Bear Stearns? There's no political will to do U turn now. Even less so in Continental Europe where the tradition of Universal Banks is entrenched. The politicians know full well that last quarter's improvement in bank earnings which brought some stability to the financial sector was solely down to improved earnings from their investment banking arms, not the commercial or retail branches.

As for UBS, it's spent the last year emasculating it's investment banking arm so they don't need any help from King and Volker.

This is all sabre rattling. Regulators are pi$$ed that banks show no remorse and are laying aside huge bonus pools.
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  #1396  
Old 24.10.2009, 19:25
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Glass Steagall eh? This "back to the future" solution ain't going to happen. Wasn't it only last year that the US government were twisting arms to secure BofA's purchase of Merrill and JPM's acquisition Bear Stearns? There's no political will to do U turn now. Even less so in Continental Europe where the tradition of Universal Banks is entrenched. The politicians know full well that last quarter's improvement in bank earnings which brought some stability to the financial sector was solely down to improved earnings from their investment banking arms, not the commercial or retail branches.

As for UBS, it's spent the last year emasculating it's investment banking arm so they don't need any help from King and Volker.

This is all sabre rattling. Regulators are pi$$ed that banks show no remorse and are laying aside huge bonus pools.
Could it be that the Investment Bank is getting cheap money from the Retail Bank? Or using the deposits in the RB to leverage the IB?

If so, the small depositors are being cheated! And when all goes wrong, the small depositors pay tax money to rescue the IB!!
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  #1397  
Old 27.10.2009, 23:48
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Could it be that the Investment Bank is getting cheap money from the Retail Bank?
of course the IB gets cheap money from the RB.
that's the whole logic of the much vaunted 'universal banking model'.

if you ask me, that's the main cause of the recent troubles.
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  #1398  
Old 28.10.2009, 08:20
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Could it be that the Investment Bank is getting cheap money from the Retail Bank? Or using the deposits in the RB to leverage the IB?

If so, the small depositors are being cheated!
Cheated? How so?
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  #1399  
Old 28.10.2009, 08:59
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Banks and Pension Funds take no risks-but act as if they do - they take our money-play with it and make loads of money for themselves then give back a pittance -
when it all goes wrong they take the money. play with with it and make loads of money for themselves and give back nothing and they then even plead that taxpayers should bail them out of their bad investment, pull the plug on businesses to protect their own finances and make no effort to change the system afterwards - doing everything possible to make sure that they get their bonuses.

I think a good thing about the crisis is that now I understand and am far more aware of bankers, how they work and know the kind of businesses they really are.
I read this week about a case in France about a man and a woman who are fighting over the winnings of a jackpot machine - It was her money and he pressed the buttons and won the jackpot - As to who's money it is, I got the impression that as the money was hers, she was the one that took the risk and thereofore has a strong claim to keep the winnings.
Taking that analogy to the level of banks - it is not their money they use to gamble with and the winnings should come back to the rightful person. Let the bankers use their own money if they want to gamble.

Last edited by Chester; 28.10.2009 at 09:02. Reason: Bad grammar
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Old 28.10.2009, 13:32
Nev
 
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Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

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Banks and Pension Funds take no risks..... - it is not their money they use
Of course it's not their money. Banks are intermediaries who bring together providers and users of capital. They take in deposits from people who have money and use them to make loans to people who don't.

Otherwise where do you think that interest is going to come from? Banks can't make money by sitting on it. It comes from putting your money to work - lending it on as personal loans, business loans, mortgage loans etc and earning interest, some of which is then passed back to you. Making loans involves risk because some loans go bad.

If you don't want any risk then you could always stuff your money under the mattress, but without any interest you'd have the risk of inflation eating away it's value.

And banks do have their own money - loads of it, generated from non interest income like services (transaction and cash management services, selling financial products) and from shareholders (the effective owners of the bank).

Last edited by Nev; 28.10.2009 at 13:46.
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