Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1561  
Old 03.02.2010, 18:25
ch-expat
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
well, to be perfectly clear, no lawsuits have been filed, but there is no dearth of allegations of fraud.

a) it is well known that mortgage brokers paid assessors to inflate real estate values so they could continue to churn out loans. sounds like fraud to me.
Sounds pretty much like what CS is accused of. Also, it appears pretty frivolous to me. Savvy property developers with their sophisticated lawyers should know better.

http://business.theatlantic.com/2010...l_gone_bad.php
Reply With Quote
  #1562  
Old 04.02.2010, 08:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
well done, Sir

in one fell swoop, you went and answered a couple hundred questions in this section ... or rather rendered them moot. just go ahead spend that money. voila... you need no longer worry about interest rates, exchange rates, service charges, safety of bank deposits, wealth tax, investments, retirements, withdrawal penalties and so on and so forth ....

you are a genius Sir
I to a point agree.
Though I believe propery may fall still in the UK am holding onto it because at least it is physically there.
With all this Quantative Easing, money surely becomes in real terms worth less. I still thin the banks are dodgy and more repercussions to come.

I was looking at buying physical Gold when it was US$800 but never bought on the grounds that I thought it was hyped up.
With interest rates at virtually zero and wealth/capital tax in Switzerland, I would say having savings in a bank ccount doesn't make sense.
Surely you are better off having it in a safe deposit box?
__________________
I do not have friends..........I have contingent liabilities
Reply With Quote
  #1563  
Old 04.02.2010, 10:10
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
......................
Surely you are better off having it in a safe deposit box?
You still have to declare it for the Capital tax.

Marton
Reply With Quote
  #1564  
Old 04.02.2010, 10:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
You still have to declare it for the Capital tax.

Marton
Surely people do not declare it all?
Reply With Quote
  #1565  
Old 04.02.2010, 10:52
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
Surely people do not declare it all?
Some do & some do not.
If they catch you then there is a fine.

Basically they can check your tax return to see if your capital has significantly reduced & then ask "where is it?"
Reply With Quote
  #1566  
Old 04.02.2010, 11:07
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
Surely people do not declare it all?

for an accountant you ask some odd questions
Reply With Quote
  #1567  
Old 04.02.2010, 11:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
for an accountant you ask some odd questions
I am an accountant but only understand the UK tax system.
I am trying to understand the Swiss tax system.
The questions are actually very appropriate with long term planning for International clients especially with the way the financial markets and the world is changing so fast where nothing is safe anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #1568  
Old 04.02.2010, 11:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
Some do & some do not.
If they catch you then there is a fine.

Basically they can check your tax return to see if your capital has significantly reduced & then ask "where is it?"
I fully understand that because , in effect the tax return capital statement is in effect a balance sheet.
As an accountant, Balance Sheets are what one needs to look at not Profit & Loss.
I was advised by a few Swiss business friends that when becoming a resident in Switzerland "to make sure you declare the capital you need and consider future spend and long term planning".
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Cashboy for this useful post:
  #1569  
Old 05.02.2010, 11:35
irinastaxen's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vevey
Posts: 299
Groaned at 6 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 166 Times in 92 Posts
irinastaxen is considered knowledgeableirinastaxen is considered knowledgeableirinastaxen is considered knowledgeable
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Few people outside the baking sector would argue that there is a need for radical reform.
I was just about ready to revise my opinion in the obamanomics the other day when he had Volcker next to him and announced the introduction of the Volcker rule.
I am not surprised but sad to read that everything is going ... as usual i.e. no reform and money talks

Volcker and Reform Defeated

The Former Fed Chairman Offers A History Lesson, Congress Skips the Class

"Sen. Shelby has his own interests. He is running for reelection this year. Wall Street has been the leading contributor to his campaign and the leadership political action committee this cycle, with $600,000 in donations through Jan. 10, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Add the real estate and insurance industries and Mr. Shelby has taken $2 million from financial interests, more than double the contributions from the next leading industry, the CRP said"

See article in WSJ here
__________________
Everything is simple when it's clearly explained
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank irinastaxen for this useful post:
  #1570  
Old 08.02.2010, 20:27
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
Wait a little longer; the Euro will fall against the Swiss Franc when the real situation of Western Europe effected by Southern Ireland, Spain, Greece and some of the East European members hits).
Sterling will also fall much probably to CHF1.4 by the end of the year. The UK is in a bigger mess than you believe; more big bad debts to be revelaed as I said on loans to SMEs, Private Loan and credit cards.
If the shares fall back to a proper level (FT100 = 4,000) then the banks will be in trouble again or they will shift the losses to their client privateinvestment funds as the UBS had been doing for years.
From today's FT "Traders and hedge funds have bet nearly $8bn against the euro, amassing the biggest ever short position in the single currency on fears of a eurozone debt crisis."

Seems like a good time to borrow euros & buy Swiss francs?
Reply With Quote
  #1571  
Old 08.02.2010, 20:33
piazza's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Küsnacht ZH
Posts: 449
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 271 Times in 128 Posts
piazza has made some interesting contributions
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

I've heard a lot of wealthy austrian are pulling their untaxed cash out of swiss banks ASAP, before the Austrian government decides to do the same thing as Germany...

Surely this cant be a good thing for swiss banks, if they have less money to play with...
Reply With Quote
  #1572  
Old 08.02.2010, 21:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
From today's FT "Traders and hedge funds have bet nearly $8bn against the euro, amassing the biggest ever short position in the single currency on fears of a eurozone debt crisis."

Seems like a good time to borrow euros & buy Swiss francs?
I would expect the Swiss Franc to rise against the Euro; well the Euro to fall against the Swiss Franc.

I would expect the Euro to fall against the GB Pound until June when the GB Pound will fall when Conservative win with a hung parliament scaring the rest of the world and the government then revealing (as always) that the finances are a lot worse than they are.

This is an interesting news article by Peston on the mortgage market and government finance that could possibly be quite serious for the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport...ty_of_the.html
__________________
I do not have friends..........I have contingent liabilities

Last edited by Cashboy; 08.02.2010 at 23:23.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Cashboy for this useful post:
  #1573  
Old 08.02.2010, 22:56
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
I've heard a lot of wealthy austrian are pulling their untaxed cash out of swiss banks ASAP, before the Austrian government decides to do the same thing as Germany...

Surely this cant be a good thing for swiss banks, if they have less money to play with...
The Swiss Sunday papers were claiming a lot of non-Swiss are pulling their cash out of Swiss banks & buying jewellry, gold, watches, cars etc. in Switzerland which is better for the Swiss economy than the money sitting in banks. Not so good for the banks; I still see the risk of UBS in a downward spiral as people keep pulling money out.

I suppose it is a naive question but what sort of taxes do they have to pay if caught? I assume the foreign governments treat it as undeclared income & charge income tax? Does anybody know?
Reply With Quote
  #1574  
Old 08.02.2010, 23:02
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
I would expect the Swiss Franc to rise against the Euro; well the Euro to fall against the Swiss Franc.

I would expect the Euro to fall against the GB Pound until June when the GB Pound will fall when Conservative win with a hung parliament scaring the rest of the world and the government then revealing (as always) that the finances are a lot worse than they are.

This is an interesting news article by Peston on the mortgage market and government finance that could possibly be quite serious for the UK.
Yes, it will be difficult for the Swiss Govt. to stop the Franc rising versus the Euro, with practically 0% interest their guns are empty.
I suppose the Swiss Govt. can keep buying euros but with the vultures circling over Greece, Spain & Portugal it will be like dripping water on a hot stone.
Plus filling your boots with a depreciating currency is not a good long term strategy or vote gainer.

I wonder how Italy avoids being on this watch list....


Did you forget the Peston link?
Reply With Quote
  #1575  
Old 08.02.2010, 23:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
I suppose it is a naive question but what sort of taxes do they have to pay if caught? I assume the foreign governments treat it as undeclared income & charge income tax? Does anybody know?
In the UK the penalty can be 100% of the tax on undeclared income plus the interest on the tax.
They normally charge 50% though.
Reply With Quote
  #1576  
Old 08.02.2010, 23:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
Yes, it will be difficult for the Swiss Govt. to stop the Franc rising versus the Euro, with practically 0% interest their guns are empty.
I suppose the Swiss Govt. can keep buying euros but with the vultures circling over Greece, Spain & Portugal it will be like dripping water on a hot stone.
Plus filling your boots with a depreciating currency is not a good long term strategy or vote gainer.

I wonder how Italy avoids being on this watch list....

Did you forget the Peston link?
They have been calling them the PIGS of the EC
Portugal - Ireland - Greece - Spain

Italy has been bankrup since 1940 but I think there might well be a few shocks to come there with high unemployment and companies in trouble and the government probably in trouble as well.


I think the banks are still in big big trouble and the governments are going to be hit hard. Theoretically if everyone is hit hard it would equal itself out but people with surpluses such as China would be better off (just like people that have cash in recessions and can take advantage of the situation). Saying that, China is owed more than a trillion from USA.

This article shows how serious it might be for the USA
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/our...oom-2010-02-02

Yep; sorry, I forgot the link of Peston which I have edited the post and put it in.
__________________
I do not have friends..........I have contingent liabilities
Reply With Quote
  #1577  
Old 09.02.2010, 18:15
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,631
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Bloomberg reports >>>
UBS AG, the European bank with the biggest losses from the credit crisis, said withdrawals by wealthy clients accelerated in the fourth quarter even as the company reported its first profit in more than a year.


As I have written before, the UBS Wealth Management business is finished. They just don't know it yet....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dino for this useful post:
  #1578  
Old 11.02.2010, 14:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,941
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,158 Times in 11,628 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

According to Swiss newspapers (not yet found in the English press) the EU has voted today against sharing bank data with the USA.
So far as I understood this covers the Swift network which only has details of on-line transactions not the status of bank accounts?
Anybody have a clearer view/comment?
Reply With Quote
  #1579  
Old 11.02.2010, 14:17
SemAms's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: im Ausland
Posts: 305
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 415 Times in 228 Posts
SemAms has an excellent reputationSemAms has an excellent reputationSemAms has an excellent reputationSemAms has an excellent reputation
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

I think that is the related news story

U.S., EU Terror-Finance Accord Rejected by Parliament (Update2)
2010-02-11 12:51:03.878 GMT


By Jonathan Stearns
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The European Parliament vetoed an
agreement on transferring bank data to U.S. counter-terrorism
investigators, risking a security gap seven weeks after an
attempt to bomb a trans-Atlantic flight.
The European Union assembly said the accord under which the
EU lets the U.S. Treasury Department view records from the Swift
money-transfer system lacks adequate personal-data protection.
The rejection came over appeals by EU national governments,
which had endorsed the deal, and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton and Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner.
“Our laws are being broken,” said Jeanine Hennis-
Plasschaert, a Dutch member who steered the matter through the
27-nation Parliament today in Strasbourg, France. “The rule of
law is crucial.” The vote was 378 to 196, with 31 abstentions.
The veto deprives the U.S. of its preferred tool for
collecting European data under the Terrorist Finance Tracking
Program created after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, nullifying a
preliminary accord meant as a precursor to a definitive deal.
The rejection highlights trans-Atlantic differences over
privacy rights in the fight against terrorism. The EU is also
resisting U.S. calls to install body scanners at airports
following a Nigerian man’s failed attempt to blow up a Northwest
Airlines plane flying to Detroit from Amsterdam on Christmas
Day.
Swift, with headquarters in Belgium and computer centers in
the Netherlands and Switzerland, is one of the main conduits for
the global financial system. The cooperative, formally called
the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication,
relays money-transfer orders among 9,000 member banks and other
financial institutions in more than 200 countries.

Provisional Agreement

The EU-U.S. accord on Swift was due to last nine months,
during which both sides were committed to negotiating a “long-
term” successor. The EU’s national governments gave their
backing last year to the deal, which imposed limits on what the
U.S. could do with the data and how long it could keep it.
“The majority view in the European Parliament is that the
correct balance between security, on the one hand, and the
protection of civil liberties and fundamental rights, on the
other, has not been achieved,” said the assembly’s president,
Jerzy Buzek. “These are difficult, complex and sensitive
matters.”
The European Commission, the EU’s executive arm in
Brussels, plans in the coming weeks to draft guidelines for
negotiations with the U.S. on a definitive accord.

‘Instrumental’

The EU-wide preliminary agreement spared the U.S. from
having to seek bank data on a purely country-by-country basis
and made the transfers less politically controversial.
The U.S. government stepped up efforts in recent weeks to
persuade the Parliament to endorse the deal, saying the
Terrorist Finance Tracking Program has been “instrumental” in
protecting citizens on both sides of the Atlantic and failing to
support it “would be a deeply regrettable and potentially
tragic mistake.”
“The EU and U.S. cannot afford to handicap our
investigators by preventing access to key data,” U.S. Treasury
Undersecretary Stuart Levey said in an opinion piece published
last week by Europolitics, a news service devoted to European
affairs. “Undetected and undeterred, terrorists will abuse the
integrity and openness of the world’s financial system.”
Clinton and Geithner also wrote to Buzek about the matter,
according to the Parliament president.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SemAms for this useful post:
  #1580  
Old 11.02.2010, 23:30
rjs rjs is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rjs has no particular reputation at present
Re: Financial Crisis Bank News [was: How Safe is UBS?]

Quote:
View Post
As I have written before, the UBS Wealth Management business is finished. They just don't know it yet....
I don't pretend to understand high finance (I have enough challenges managing my own low finances!).

However, I don't under how the above quote reconciles with the following excerpt from UBS' public financial results for the 4th quarter. It looks anything but finished.

"Fourth quarter 2009 profit of CHF 1,205 million

UBS reports a fourth quarter net profit attributable to UBS shareholders of CHF 1,205 million ....

Wealth Management & Swiss Bank's pre-tax profit was up 40% to CHF 1,109 million"
(from http://www.ubs.com/1/e/investors/rel...?newsId=174737).

I'll grant there is a huge difference between pre- and post-tax profits, but when one "doomed and dying" division's pre-tax profit is almost equal to the company's entire after-tax profit, I don't understand the claim that the division is doomed.


Also, from that same document, we have the following on the outflows (which admittedly is bad):

"Wealth Management & Swiss Bank – Outflows of net new money were CHF 33.2 billion in fourth quarter 2009 compared with CHF 16.7 billion in the prior quarter. Invested assets of CHF 22.8 billion were affected by the Italian tax amnesty, of which CHF 14.3 billion were retained within UBS."
2/3 of the outflow were due to the Italian amnesty and nearly (very loosely) 50% of the outflows were retained within UBS.

I wish my personal finances could do so badly!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bank, banking crisis, economy, financial crisis, switzerland, ubs, usa




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dude, where's the lawsuits? [Financial crisis] dino International affairs/politics 43 26.11.2008 09:37
Shall I tansfer GBP to canton bank for safe keeping swinburne Finance/banking/taxation 1 17.10.2008 13:50
Bank Crisis in Japan nickatbasel Jokes/funnies 1 08.10.2008 23:08
Sub-prime crisis discussion (UBS, CS et al) hugh_abu Finance/banking/taxation 244 09.05.2008 01:33
Need a safe bank Lechuga Finance/banking/taxation 11 13.04.2007 12:40


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0