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  #21  
Old 23.09.2022, 11:13
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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I assume it's for them to be able to reduce your payout if you retire earlier than the mandatory age.
Because with the current aging population trend and ratio of employed vs. retired, there is little chance the current funds are stable into the future.
So seems they need a way to "cut it shorter" than what you "deserve".
Current Swiss AHV rules
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Under flexible retirement age rules, you can take your old-age pension
• early by one or two whole years (but not by individual months) or
• late by between one and a maximum of five years.
If you take your old-age pension early, you will receive a reduced old-age pension for the full duration of your retirement.
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  #22  
Old 23.09.2022, 11:30
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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I assume it's for them to be able to reduce your payout if you retire earlier than the mandatory age.
Because with the current aging population trend and ratio of employed vs. retired, there is little chance the current funds are stable into the future.
So seems they need a way to "cut it shorter" than what you "deserve".
So, a liquidity or solvency problem?
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  #23  
Old 23.09.2022, 11:48
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Simple:

a) women are already disadvantaged

b) stop buying useless military jets

Tom
But for a), women can expect to live some 3 years more than men at age 65, cancelling the state pension disadvantage. Anyhow the disadvantages women have need to be addressed at the source, not by compensation later on.

Agree on b) though.
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  #24  
Old 23.09.2022, 12:04
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

No for the jets?

There's a war that can escalate into something larger not so far from here. The jets and the anti-enemy jet defense system are reasonable.

Anyway I don't vote, I just pay taxes
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  #25  
Old 23.09.2022, 13:34
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Actually, the law:
- does not require larger AHV contributions for older employees. The AHV contribution remains - the same - fixed percentage for all employees
Aha, I confused AHV and the Second Pillar. Apologies. Both, however, are involuntary and I cannot reduce my Second Pillar contributions to what they were when I was younger than 50. And the employer matches, presumably also involuntarily.

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- does not require more vacation time for older employees (it only requires more holidays for those under the age of 20). Collective bargaining agreements may envisage more vacation time, but this is not a requirement.
Where I work there's no collective bargaining, everyone gets the mandated 4 weeks vacation time, but everyone 50 and over gets 5 weeks. Given that we're a startup on a limited budget I find it unlikely that this is voluntary.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #26  
Old 23.09.2022, 13:41
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Where I work there's no collective bargaining, everyone gets the mandated 4 weeks vacation time, but everyone 50 and over gets 5 weeks. Given that we're a startup on a limited budget I find it unlikely that this is voluntary.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
You are wrong.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 24.09.2022, 09:15
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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It's true. I'm almost 60 and I'm struggling with the fast-paced and very much flawed digital expectations. The reliability of software has decreased while the expectations of employees self-servicing their pcs has increased.
They know to "try turning it off and on again"
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  #28  
Old 24.09.2022, 21:29
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

Even more farm regulations. No, will hit consumers and we should be following other countries, not leading.

Raise retirement age for women. No, equality is important but it should start elsewhere.

Raise VAT to cover pension deficit. No, yet again it hits us all in the wallet. How about a luxury tax of 20% on any purchase (except primary residence) over CHF 50k?

Cancel taxes on corporations? No, why not cut my taxes? If proposal was revenue negative I would vote in favour, but it isn’t. Lost revenue would come from my wallet.

And, in VD, create a new group of 5 judges, two lawyers and two others to oversee the judiciary? No, no, no. If they are serious create a group of 5 common people.
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  #29  
Old 25.09.2022, 01:17
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Aha, I confused AHV and the Second Pillar. Apologies. Both, however, are involuntary and I cannot reduce my Second Pillar contributions to what they were when I was younger than 50. And the employer matches, presumably also involuntarily.



Where I work there's no collective bargaining, everyone gets the mandated 4 weeks vacation time, but everyone 50 and over gets 5 weeks. Given that we're a startup on a limited budget I find it unlikely that this is voluntary.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
You really understand the consequences of not ensuring that everyone is adequately saving for retirement….

So in very simple terms, if they don’t have enough, they are going to take some of yours and there won’t be a dam thing you can do about it because there will be more of them and they will vote in politicians that will do it.

If you are a young person right now you have a vested interest in ensuring people are saving for retirement, that is unless you are happy to share your pot.
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  #30  
Old 25.09.2022, 14:21
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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I think that's how Schwyz is going to vote too
So far, Schwyz is voting yes on 3 out of 4
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  #31  
Old 25.09.2022, 15:14
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

According to the current count (2:15 PM) the Massentierhaltung is getting a 66% rejection, increasing the VAT to finance AHV is supported by 56% YES, the other changes to the retirement regulations just shy of 52% YES, and the Verrechnungsteuer is scratching the 50.04% YES. Too tight to tell for that last one.
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  #32  
Old 25.09.2022, 15:22
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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According to the current count (2:15 PM) the Massentierhaltung is getting a 66% rejection, increasing the VAT to finance AHV is supported by 56% YES, the other changes to the retirement regulations just shy of 52% YES, and the Verrechnungsteuer is scratching the 50.04% YES. Too tight to tell for that last one.
Tagi forecast (as opposed to current count) is for 51.8% no for the Verrechnungsteuer so getting clear there. But 50.2% yes for the retirement age - which is well under the margin for error so still everything open there.
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  #33  
Old 25.09.2022, 16:21
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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2x 4x No!

Animal welfare BS, increase women's AHV age from 64 to 65, increased VAT, eliminating some withholding tax.

https://www.ch.ch/en/votes-and-elect...ithholding-tax

Tom
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I think that's how Schwyz is going to vote too
That’s how Neuchâtel voted.
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  #34  
Old 25.09.2022, 16:24
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

Big Röschtigraben on AHV.
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  #35  
Old 25.09.2022, 16:27
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Big Röschtigraben on AHV.
Definitely
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  #36  
Old 25.09.2022, 17:16
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

Latest update 25.09.22 16h09

-------------------------------------

- Factory farming NO: 64.8%

NO in all cantons except in BS.

Basel-Stadt is probably the only canton that doesn't have farms with livestock.

-------------------------------------

- VAT 8.1%/2.6%/3.8% YES: 54.0%

YES in all cantons except in FR/NE/VD/GE/JU.

-------------------------------------

- Retirement age (AHV-AVS 21) NO: 50.5%

YES in all cantons except in FR/BS/SH/TI/VS/NE/VD/GE/JU.

No double majority required

-------------------------------------

- Withholding tax NO: 52.1%

NO in all cantons except in LU/SZ/OW/NW/ZG/AR/AI/SG/GR/AG/TG/TI.

Unexpected YES in TI. All my friends and relatives who live in southern TI (around Lugano) voted NO

No double majority required

-------------------------------------

ZH: Are we voting today?
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  #37  
Old 25.09.2022, 18:17
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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Latest update 25.09.22 16h09

-------------------------------------

- Factory farming NO: 64.8%

NO in all cantons except in BS.

Basel-Stadt is probably the only canton that doesn't have farms with livestock.

-------------------------------------

- VAT 8.1%/2.6%/3.8% YES: 54.0%

YES in all cantons except in FR/NE/VD/GE/JU.

-------------------------------------

- Retirement age (AHV-AVS 21) NO: 50.5%

YES in all cantons except in FR/BS/SH/TI/VS/NE/VD/GE/JU.

No double majority required

-------------------------------------

- Withholding tax NO: 52.1%

NO in all cantons except in LU/SZ/OW/NW/ZG/AR/AI/SG/GR/AG/TG/TI.

Unexpected YES in TI. All my friends and relatives who live in southern TI (around Lugano) voted NO

No double majority required

-------------------------------------

ZH: Are we voting today?
I don't know what you are watching, but AHV is still a yes with 50.5 % in faviur of raising the retirement age.
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  #38  
Old 25.09.2022, 18:44
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

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I don't know what you are watching, but AHV is still a yes with 50.5 % in faviur of raising the retirement age.
That’s the final result according to VoteInfo. 50.57% in favour to be precise.
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  #39  
Old 26.09.2022, 09:17
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

Yes you are right. But at the time I posted this (4:16 pm), the results for the Canton of Zurich were not yet available.


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...but AHV is still a yes with 50.5 % in faviur of raising the retirement age.
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  #40  
Old 26.09.2022, 19:33
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Re: Sept. 25 Vote

Does anyone know the turnout? Haven’t seen anything on the usual suspects.
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