Individual taxation of married people failed consultation at federal council

Ciuccio · #1 18.03.2023, 04:50

What happens now?

Source:
https://www.nau.ch/amp/politik/bunde...durch-66450547

bowlie · #2 18.03.2023, 09:01

Back to square one. The voting public has told the government to fix this, but any solution will cost a billion in tax revenues.

IMHO the solution is to raise the tax rates on the top 1% and increase the VAT on luxury items (over 200k) to 25%.

st2lemans · #3 18.03.2023, 09:32

	Quote:	Ciuccio
	What happens now?

Nothing, most likely.

Tom

Ciuccio · #4 18.03.2023, 13:43

Very sad. I was really hoping in some change, also considering the nice summary that the Confederation set up on the discussion:

https://www.efd.admin.ch/efd/de/home...steuerung.html

st2lemans · #5 18.03.2023, 14:35

	Quote:	Ciuccio
	Very sad. I was really hoping in some change

Why? I see no need for change.

Tom

NotAllThere · #6 18.03.2023, 14:39

I like this comment:

	Quote:
	My wife and I both work one hundred percent. And just because we are married, we pay more taxes than cohabiting partners. That's not fair!

Of course, if it had come through, the comment could have been made

	Quote:
	I work, my spouse doesn't. I pay more taxes than a couple each earning half what I do. That's not fair!

bowlie · #7 18.03.2023, 14:39

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Why? I see no need for change. Tom

	Quote:
	The essentials in brief Currently, married couples are taxed jointly, and unmarried people are taxed individually. In the case of spouses, the sum of the two income determines the tax burden, while in the case of unmarried persons, individual income is decisive. This situation is reflected, within the framework of the progressive income tax system, in unequal treatment between married and unmarried people. The distribution of income between spouses is not without consequence: the tax burden of couples with an unequal distribution of income is often less heavy than that of unmarried couples whose economic situation is similar. When income is distributed equally between the spouses, on the other hand, married couples may have to bear a heavier tax burden. With the Federal Law on Individual Taxation proposed by the Federal Council, married couples would be taxed individually and no longer jointly, which would make it possible to implement taxation independent of civil status and remove unequal treatment between married and unmarried persons. The transition to individual taxation would encourage the two spouses of a married couple to work more, which should have a positive effect on employment. Indeed, a lower tax burden would weigh on the additional income from a new secondary gainful activity or the increase in existing secondary income.

Says it all. From Ciuccio’s link above, web translated.

NotAllThere · #8 18.03.2023, 17:49

Current system:
Married, equal income - financially worse
Married, unequal income - financially better

Proposed system:
Married, equal income - financially better
Married, unequal income - financially worse

A fair tax system isn't possible.

	Quote:
	The transition to individual taxation would encourage the two spouses of a married couple to work more, which should have a positive effect on employment.

Really? By increasing the labour pool? Thereby reducing competition and wages... no wonder the business leaders support it! And the childcare industry I guess.

SherylCrow · #9 19.03.2023, 09:43

Loads of couples are choosing not to be legally married. They don't see an incentive. It's only financially advantageous if one of you gives up the career. I suppose that trend will continue.

	Quote:	Ciuccio
	What happens now? Source: https://www.nau.ch/amp/politik/bunde...durch-66450547

Urs Max · #10 19.03.2023, 21:22

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Really? By increasing the labour pool? Thereby reducing competition and wages... no wonder the business leaders support it! And the childcare industry I guess.

If anything, elimination of competition is what you get from FMOP.

st2lemans · #11 19.03.2023, 22:30

As a single earner, of course I will vote NO.

Tom

bowlie · #12 19.03.2023, 22:56

	Quote:	st2lemans
	As a single earner, of course I will vote NO. Tom

We’ve already voted for it, years ago. The government is now trying to implement the will of the people (other than Tom).

Urs Max · #13 19.03.2023, 23:16

	Quote:	bowlie
	We’ve already voted for it, years ago. The government is now trying to implement the will of the people (other than Tom).

When was that? What Initiative? What you may have in mind is the CVP's (now Die Mitte) Initiative "gegen die Heiratsstrafe" (removal of the marriage penalty). However it left open how that was to be arrived at, and it got rejected by the voters in the first place.

What this is about is a new, different Initiative that explicitly demands individual taxation regardless of civil status, dubbed "Steuergerechtigkeits-Initiative" (justice in taxation). It became effective last October (i.e. got the necessary 100k signatures). Now parliament and federal council have a few years, subject to the path the debate/implementation takes, to implement it without a vote, by whatever alternative solution they come up with. A solution that satisfies the comittee behind it to enough to make them withdraw this Initiative. Such a solution would probabaly be implemented on the level of legalisation only whereas the Initiative, if accepted, would have the constitution amended.

Otherwise, and this is the default, it'll be voted on in something like 3-5 years. So No, "nothing will happen" as claimed above is not an option.

Ciuccio · #14 20.03.2023, 07:25

	Quote:	Urs Max
	What this is about is a new, different Initiative that explicitly demands individual taxation regardless of civil status, dubbed "Steuergerechtigkeits-Initiative" (justice in taxation). It became effective last October (i.e. got the necessary 100k signatures).

This is refreshing. Thank you for sharing. I am glad that something will be done about it, even if it takes longer than I had hoped for.

Source:
https://www.individualbesteuerung.ch/

st2lemans · #15 20.03.2023, 08:41

	Quote:	Ciuccio
	This is refreshing. Thank you for sharing. I am glad that something will be done about it, even if it takes longer than I had hoped for. Source: https://www.individualbesteuerung.ch/

Well, when it comes up for a vote, and it will in a few years, I will vote against it (unless they make it optional).

Tom

Ciuccio · #16 20.03.2023, 09:17

There is also another initiative:
https://ja-zu-fairness.ch/

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Well, when it comes up for a vote, and it will in a few years, I will vote against it (unless they make it optional). Tom

Good for you.

litespeed · #17 20.03.2023, 09:34

	Quote:	SherylCrow
	Loads of couples are choosing not to be legally married. They don't see an incentive. It's only financially advantageous if one of you gives up the career. I suppose that trend will continue.

The incentive is security in the partnership: inheritance rules don't apply to non-married couples.

st2lemans · #18 20.03.2023, 09:40

	Quote:	SherylCrow
	It's only financially advantageous if one of you gives up the career.

Or never had one.

Tom

Urs Max · #19 20.03.2023, 17:00

	Quote:	Ciuccio
	There is also another initiative: https://ja-zu-fairness.ch/

As for the "ja zu fairness" Initiative, that's just the common egotistical "more for me, sod everybody else". There's no way this gets accepted by the voters, the party just wants to create pressure favoring their clientele that discriminates against everybody else.

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Well, when it comes up for a vote, and it will in a few years, I will vote against it (unless they make it optional). Tom

maybe maybe maybe not

The federal parliament has two years to implement the Initiative without a vote by the population (extendable by one year <conditions>). Instead of a change to the constitution (which is unlikely to be accepted) an implementation by law might be much easier to arrive at. Most everybody sees the need, there may be a way.

NotAllThere · #20 20.03.2023, 17:05

	Quote:	litespeed
	The incentive is security in the partnership: inheritance rules don't apply to non-married couples.

Also, marriage grants next of kin rights.