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Old 25.02.2007, 14:04
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Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

Fed-up Swiss taxpayers call time on concessions for wealthy foreigners

By Joerg Michner in Zurich, Sunday Telegraph

Last Updated: 12:30am GMT 25/02/2007





Switzerland's status as a tax haven for the rich and famous is under threat after a growing domestic backlash against the concessions awarded to super-rich foreigners.
Ordinary Swiss taxpayers are pressing for a review of rules that effectively allow wealthy foreigners to dictate their own tax rates. Under the system, they can enter into private arrangements with individual cantons that allow them to pay a fraction of the rates that locals pay.
Until now, each canton has been more than happy to offer such terms to famous expatriate residents, who include the actor Sir Roger Moore, the tennis player Boris Becker and Phil Collins, the musician, who lives in the village of Begnins, between Lake Geneva and the Jura Mountains.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/wswiss25.xml
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  #2  
Old 25.02.2007, 14:26
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !!

Ahh, the politics of envy...

Rich person paying, say, 10% puts CHF 25 million into the coffers.
The Swiss kick them out.
How many average Swiss families' tax will increase to recoup that CHF 25 million?

10% of millions is far more than the 25% of my pittance...

I'm not saying it is fair, correct or moral - but don't confuse rate and amount
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Old 25.02.2007, 14:35
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !!

Yep classic case of the "man on the street" failing to grasp the fact that this arrangement put money in his pocket. The arrangement might be a little shady, but that's never stopped Switzerland before.

Unfortunately, like most democracies, the uninformed are also allowed to vote

Strangely enough, at the same time as this story is being raised, the papers are full of stories of Switzerland vigorously defending its position of granting low taxes to companies in light of recent EU complaints on the subject. In reality these two issues aren't that different, but obviously are perceived by the public differently.

Maybe if the EU had made a complaint like "stop nicking all our rich citizens (foreigners to you lot) and giving them low taxes" then the situation would be up in arms with people saying "don't tell us what to do you big bully, we'll give those rich foreigners cheap tax deals if we like thanks very much".
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Old 25.02.2007, 14:57
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

It is of course quite usual for the Telegraph to get the wrong end of the stick, especially when dealing with difficult foreign subject like Switzerland. So accurate is their research that they think our currency is written as "SwF".

I have not heard that any "Ordinary Swiss taxpayers are pressing for a review of rules". The only ones who want things changed are the losers, like the politicians of the corrupt socialist EU mega-state and in the case of Johnny Halliday, France - and of course the bleeding hearts of the SP...
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Old 25.02.2007, 15:01
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

Quote:
I have not heard that any "Ordinary Swiss taxpayers are pressing for a review of rules".
Actually there was a survey done in Switzerland recently. This was one of the issues raised and the majority of people in the survey responded that they wanted to change the situation. I expect the Telegraph is simply repeating what has been in the Swiss press.
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Old 05.03.2007, 09:50
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

I am quite keen for the redneck cowherders to do their worst and kick all the rich foreigners out of Switzerland.

Into Leichtenstein. Or the Bahamas.

Who the hell comes here for tax savings anymore, anyway? Surely the BVI is killing this place if you re into that sort of thing? (which i am not, sadly)

Meh. the silly swiss are going to drive out the one thing that currently supports their grossly inefficient communist soicial system - foreign money.

The big lie in the swiss economy is that it has somehting going on if you take away the foreign companies washing their books here.

The cowherds would be chewing the last of their home grown cheese within weeks if they are dumb enough to hatethe auslanders money.

I figure you have to take what is good from all countries in the global village. I earn pounds, because London is great for earning money and doing business. I live in Switzerland because the mountains are nice, the trains are clean and the cowherds crack me up.

And I go back to the colonies for holidays, to see how the convicts are getting along without any water.
I tell thee, nationlism makes no sense in the age of the jet.
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Old 05.03.2007, 12:12
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

London is the best tax haven there is anyhow, Switzerland is yesterday's news, if you are young, dynamic Russian billionaire with dubious funds, you go there, buy a football club and enjoy the lifestyle...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/busin...025825,00.html
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Old 05.03.2007, 13:06
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

"The rich are not like you and me" - said Fitzgerald, well maybe not like me.

Why shouldn't the rich pay their taxes like everybody else ? In this thread, so far, the answer is "because they can".

good luck, rich folks - enjoy the helicopter ride to the Prada shop.




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  #9  
Old 05.03.2007, 13:15
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

Quote:
Why shouldn't the rich pay their taxes like everybody else ? In this thread, so far, the answer is "because they can".
They are paying their taxes.
Where has anyone said they are not?
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Old 05.03.2007, 13:31
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

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They are paying their taxes.
Where has anyone said they are not?
but they are not paying like everybody else - they pay a lot less. The burden then falls on the middle classes.
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Old 05.03.2007, 14:19
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

Quote:
but they are not paying like everybody else - they pay a lot less. The burden then falls on the middle classes.
And if the super rich people leave, who makes up the shortfall in tax revenue?
Any percentage of zero is still zero.

Let's take it further:
How many jobs rely on these rich foreigners? In the Prada shops, gardeners, caterers, builders, architects, accountants, whatever?
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  #12  
Old 05.03.2007, 14:22
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

Quote:
but they are not paying like everybody else - they pay a lot less.
But that's exactly what was being discussed at the start of this thread... They may pay a low percentage, but even that 'low' amount would still be a hundred times or even more of what I pay... If you think of it that way, it makes a lot of sense!

Quote:
The burden then falls on the middle classes.
Put another way, who wouldn't want to get away cheaply? Why should a couple of rich people pay for everybody else? All of us should pay the system back as much as we take from it... And let's face it, taxes in Switzerland are not exactly high in the first place!
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  #13  
Old 05.03.2007, 14:27
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

Thanks to a few super rich folk who recently decided to make my little village their tax domicile, we are getting an across-the-board tax reduction of 10% this year, followed by a 5% permanent reduction.

I'm very glad our little otherwise unremarkable 2-cow-town-in-the-boondocks does what it can to entice the very wealthy to move here... If it didn't, the town would either be hopelessly mired in debt or have died out long ago. As it is, we have a vibrant village with a decent school, functioning services, and low taxes for everyone.

Seems to me that everybody wins.
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Old 05.03.2007, 14:54
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

I'm not so sure the Super rich would up sticks and move if their taxes would be higher. if that was the case all rich people would live the area with minimum taxes - maybe even negative taxes ? after all, the people working for the rich will pay taxes.

Tax is not the only consideration for location.

"of us should pay the system back as much as we take from it... "

So - if you are disabled you should pay the state for accesible public buildings ?
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Old 05.03.2007, 15:02
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

Quote:
So - if you are disabled you should pay the state for accesible public buildings ?
I'm sure if the rich Steven Hawking lived in 2-cows-in-the-boondocks every building would have a ramp...
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:04
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

Quote:
I'm not so sure the Super rich would up sticks and move if their taxes would be higher. if that was the case all rich people would live the area with minimum taxes - maybe even negative taxes ? after all, the people working for the rich will pay taxes.

Tax is not the only consideration for location.

"of us should pay the system back as much as we take from it... "
Yep. If taxes were the only concern, the rich would all move to countries like Monaco, the Bahamas, or even Somalia (no government, no tax).
Michael Schumacher said once in an interview he's in Switzerland just for his kids. In Monaco he could pay even less taxes (zero) but he didn't want his kids to grow up in a Casino area.

BTW

The UK is another tax haven for the rich and famous. The non-domiciled British tax loophole for the rich has been under fire for years, the Labor party has tried to close it maybe three-four times in 20 years without success. I think "tax deals" are quite safe in Switzerland. As in the UK, they will all forget about it when they get the estimates for lost revenues and jobs.
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:11
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

Not that it has ever stopped the UK to have a go at the Swiss about the ethics of tax breaks Manolo

Shumacher has been a model rich tax exile. He plays for the local football club, insists on being treated like everybody else down the local boozer, got a local pasta making firm to furnish the Ferrari team (talk about coal to Newcastle...) and makes himself available for local charity dos and the likes without complaining.
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Old 05.03.2007, 17:00
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners]

OK well to further the issue from Stephen Hawking loiving in a 2 cow town with his Ferrari.

It depends on the reason behind the taxes. If it was for wealth distribution to look after thje rich then teh amount teh rich people pay is open for discussion.

However in Switzerland this redistribution of wealth is going to the middle classes as where else will it go?

The idea is that it should pay for public services that each canton will use, and therefore each person. The idea could be that teh percentage covers both, firstlz cantonal costs then a secondary redistribution stemming from teh overflowing of coffers due to the local billionaire.

However I cant really see the argument that rich people use local ammenities more and you could argue they use less.

'I think its not fair that poor people have to pay the same as everyone else when it comes to TV licence....They should pay more, all they do is sit on the ar$es all day watching soaps, I go to the theatre and do sport'
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Old 14.04.2007, 09:06
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !!

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately, like most democracies, the uninformed are also allowed to vote
heck, in some like the US, the uninformed are allowed to run the damn country!
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Old 14.04.2007, 10:14
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Re: Looks like we will all have to leave !! [debate on tax breaks for rich foreigners

I guess this is all about the eternal problem of envy + plus the eternal argument between left and right politics......nothing can ever be resolved in our millenia I suspect.

However.......for what it's worth, I think that the fact that a tiny country with only 8m people manages $153 BILLION of global investment funds (= $20 thousand per capita) has something to do with the quality of life for the average native here....a few decades of this seem to have led to this...... Switzerland has the highest per capita wealth (OECD stats: assets of $648,000 each Swiss person on average) - in the world!

A richista is likely to be a relatively big spender here, and consume very few public services - certainly less than the average taxpayer - and the average Swiss with three quarter of a million franks to his/her name shouldn't have sleepless nights about this surely?
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