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-   -   Atheist bus campaign in CH (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/43755-atheist-bus-campaign-ch.html)

AlCH 18.02.2009 09:41

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Just a thought... Concerning a lack of evidence for traditional God stories.

The God of the old testament promised Abraham that his descendants would be very numerous. He and Sarah did not completely believe so he "did it" with a servant creating Ishmael. later Sarah also became pregnant creating Isaac and then the nation of Israel thereafter.

God then told Abraham that because of his unbelief the descendants of each son would forever be adversaries.

If I am not mistaken, modern Jews claim to be descended from Isaac and many Arab nations claim to be descended from Ishmael. Of all of the distinct people groups that have risen and fallen, been killed off, or massacred:

How can this be explained? Is this a self-fulfilling prophecy, or has there been "the hand of God" guiding history to the apparent climactic situation that exists today in the heart of the middle east?

Macchiato 18.02.2009 09:46

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 399154)
I though atheist's believed there was NO god - or rather didn't believe anything. Saying there '"probably" isn't one is such a lame slogan. It's like Christians saying "God probably exists".

As I understand religion, it is supposed to stop you worrying and bring joy into ones life. Thus suggesting there might not be a God is surely more likely to start people worrying, rather that "stop worrying and enjoy life"...
:msncrazy:

It is clear, that without using "probably", religious would have asked for proof which doesn't exist, as much as they can't prove the existence (simply due to lack of detailed definiton of god)!
Although the one beileving in exisence of something needs to prove, not the one beilive in non existence.
In theory relig. may stop sme worries, but I have seen a hell amount of adding worries, (one example I have seen myself, a sleepless 9 year old girl which accidentaly her headscarf was down and her hairs were exposed and she was having nightmare of going to hell due to that as her believer dear teacher scared her about hell,...) and lots of examples in different places.
If relig. follow 3 books carefully and thoroghly, they need to worry every second not to make a mistake and be punished.

Brightonite 18.02.2009 10:13

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nev (Post 399003)
"Live and let live". How's that for a slogan?

100% correct Nev. What I believe in, is cock and bull and I wouldn't ram it down anyone else's throat. well er?

Mikers 18.02.2009 10:26

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Meanwhile, back in blighty the religious movement has shown itself not to be a force to be outdone, and certainly not one to be petty and childish, by funding their own "There definitiely IS a god bus slogans:"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7875457.stm

So given that no buses come along then three come at once, a 6 year old watching the world go by with his mummy will be told there 'Probably isnt a god', then 'There Definitely IS a god' and then that women will throw themselves at you if you wear Lynx.

It's hardly putting across a stable message now is it ? But then, as the Christians Im sure would says "but he started it...."

cricketer 18.02.2009 10:27

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Personally I prefer the bus with the Lap-dancing Club advert on it. That always catches my eye - dont know why.

Russkov 18.02.2009 10:27

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 399154)
I though atheist's believed there was NO god - or rather didn't believe anything. Saying there '"probably" isn't one is such a lame slogan. It's like Christians saying "God probably exists".

Not necessarily. Atheism asserts that as there is no tangible proof that God exists, there's no reason to believe in God. "Probably" is fitting because no reasonable atheists would suggest that he or she can prove that there is no God, or is sure 100% that there isn't one. The way God is defined by today's major religions, maybe. But when we step outside of the set parameters and start considering the idea of a "god" independent of theology, I think things get muddy to the point of giving us with too broad a definition to be 100% "disprovable", and I would challenge you to find many atheists who are 100% sure there isn't any sort of higher power. Ones of intellectually sound mind, at least.
Quote:

As I understand religion, it is supposed to stop you worrying and bring joy into ones life. Thus suggesting there might not be a God is surely more likely to start people worrying, rather that "stop worrying and enjoy life"...
:msncrazy:
I think you're overestimating the scale of this ad campaign's target audience (read: people afraid of spending eternity in hell fire for their sins.) In no way is the ad campaign suggesting that all believers fall into this category. Start people worrying, umm, ok. I personally find the idea that there's no one judging what I do in order to determine my place in the afterlife much more comforting. I can answer for my own morality and action to myself just fine, thank you very much. Different strokes for different folks.
Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlongenecker (Post 399176)
Just a thought... Concerning a lack of evidence for traditional God stories.

The God of the old testament promised Abraham that his descendants would be very numerous. He and Sarah did not completely believe so he "did it" with a servant creating Ishmael. later Sarah also became pregnant creating Isaac and then the nation of Israel thereafter.

God then told Abraham that because of his unbelief the descendants of each son would forever be adversaries.

If I am not mistaken, modern Jews claim to be descended from Isaac and many Arab nations claim to be descended from Ishmael. Of all of the distinct people groups that have risen and fallen, been killed off, or massacred:

How can this be explained? Is this a self-fulfilling prophecy, or has there been "the hand of God" guiding history to the apparent climactic situation that exists today in the heart of the middle east?

I would hope you believe it's just a coincidence and is dependent on many other socio-political factors, because if it is inevitable or deity-guided, we might as well pull all humanitarian support out of there and let them fight and die it out. The Bible says it's going to continue no matter what we do, so why bother, right?

Mikers 18.02.2009 10:30

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB (Post 399202)
Meanwhile, back in blighty the religious movement has shown itself not to be a force to be outdone, and certainly not one to be petty and childish, by funding their own "There definitiely IS a god bus slogans:"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7875457.stm

So given that no buses come along then three come at once, a 6 year old watching the world go by with his mummy will be told there 'Probably isnt a god', then 'There Definitely IS a god' and then that women will throw themselves at you if you wear Lynx.

It's hardly putting across a stable message now is it ? But then, as the Christians Im sure would says "but he started it...."

....and hot off the press, from what I'm hearing in London, it seems that the Pro-God campaign may actually be a clever subliminal marketing campaign to get people to invest in religious projects, whereas the Atheist funded group have officially declared that their campaign is NOT FOR PROPHET!

BOOM BOOM!

Brightonite 18.02.2009 10:36

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
For most of us, our religion is not a definitive thing and surely all believers have doubtful days. I for example, often wonder if I am Agnostic, Atheist, or just a plain old heathen? "That's me in the in the corner"

Sada 18.02.2009 11:58

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
they (who was it again ?) only put that up on the bus
so there can be another day of a
never ending heated round
of discussions going on the EF ... :rolleyes::p:eek::) ahhh !!!

amogles 19.02.2009 14:39

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cricketer (Post 399204)
Personally I prefer the bus with the Lap-dancing Club advert on it. That always catches my eye - dont know why.

Yeah double standards maybe seeing alcohol and tobacco ads are not allowed.

Colonelboris 19.02.2009 14:57

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Personally, I'd spend the money from both campaigns on hiring a huge venue with a boxing ring. Then I'd make the leader of Christian Voice have a damn' good punch up with Richard Dawkins. Both of them p*** me off no end.

amogles 19.02.2009 14:57

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by InShan (Post 398929)
I wonder if you'd feel like driving that bus through the streets of Downtown Karachi, or Jerusalem? Or wearing a t-shirt proclaiming the same message? T-shirt would be cheaper, and a hell of a lot more mobile- so you should think about it.

Or, for that matter, stand up in Old Trafford and say football is (probably) a complete waste of time.

Or go to Texas and stalk talking about Global Warming.

Everybody has their own special shade of intolerance.

amogles 19.02.2009 14:58

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonelboris (Post 400213)
Personally, I'd spend the money from both campaigns on hiring a huge venue with a boxing ring. Then I'd make the leader of Christian Voice have a damn' good punch up with Richard Dawkins. Both of them p*** me off no end.

I'd like to see Bishop Williamson debate agains Richard Dawkins. I think it could be quite amusing.

Canadian_dude 19.02.2009 15:15

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 399154)
It really is a potty waste of money (unless of course your a bus owner being paid to drive round with this daft campaign on the side of your vehicle).

I though atheist's believed there was NO god - or rather didn't believe anything. Saying there '"probably" isn't one is such a lame slogan. It's like Christians saying "God probably exists".

As I understand religion, it is supposed to stop you worrying and bring joy into ones life. Thus suggesting there might not be a God is surely more likely to start people worrying, rather that "stop worrying and enjoy life"...
:msncrazy:

Advertizing rules mean that they have to say probably.

Also, if you check the news... religion has brought anything BUT joy into people's life.

"In an atheist country, good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things. For good people to do bad things... that takes religion"


P.S. I am donating.

amogles 19.02.2009 15:20

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian_dude (Post 400233)
Also, if you check the news... religion has brought anything BUT joy into people's life.

If you look at 20th Century history you'll find that atheist regimes have a good deal more suffering and murder to account for than religious ones. In fact they probably killed more people than the Church and other traditional religions combined in the previous 19 Centuries.

Guest 19.02.2009 15:25

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 400216)
I'd like to see Bishop Williamson debate agains Richard Dawkins. I think it could be quite amusing.

Dawkins the 'Arch-Atheist' has just admitted he is open to the idea that highly intelligent aliens may have brought life to earth. (See Ben Stein's new film 'Expelled' and comments thereupon).
He's now back-pedalling / disclaiming for all he's worth, as someone pointed out that technically speaking, God could be described as a powerful, all knowing alien, (and indeed, is described as a brightly glowing man-like form a couple of times in the Old Testament.)

To finish on a joke:

Who knew? Moses was a vintage British bike fan!
"...and the roar of his Triumph could be heard across the hills of Israel."

I'll get my coat...

Jim

Macchiato 19.02.2009 15:26

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 400238)
If you look at 20th Century history you'll find that atheist regimes have a good deal more suffering and murder to account for than religious ones. In fact they probably killed more people than the Church and other traditional religions combined in the previous 19 Centuries.

No WAY!!!!

amogles 19.02.2009 15:28

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian_dude (Post 400233)
"In an atheist country, good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things. For good people to do bad things... that takes religion"

Without God there is no clear definition of what is good and bad. There is no higher authority so everybody can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad and cannot be challenged because everything is a matter of opinion and perspective.

Of course atheists do claim there is an absolute good and an absolute bad but in doing so they are only referring to the judgement of an absolute God (who they otherwise reject). They call this God by various strange names such as a natural law or a natural morality to disguise the fact that it is a God. But they fail to explain how this natural law came to be if it is not a God or was not created by a God. As soon as they do go all the way and reject this natural law as being a replacement God, they are accepting there is no absolute good or bad but only a personal perspective.

Therefore I would correct the above statement and say

"In a true atheist country good and bad are relative but everybody thinks they are good and doing good things. For bad things to be detected as such ... that takes religion".

cyrus 19.02.2009 15:30

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Velofellow (Post 400242)
Dawkins the 'Arch-Atheist' has just admitted he is open to the idea that highly intelligent aliens may have brought life to earth. (See Ben Stein's new film 'Expelled' and comments thereupon).
He's now back-pedalling / disclaiming for all he's worth, as someone pointed out that technically speaking, God could be described as a powerful, all knowing alien, (and indeed, is described as a brightly glowing man-like form a couple of times in the Old Testament.)

I don't think Hawkins did much back pedalling, was only upset that he'd been taken out of context.

If god was an alien, it doesn't prove intelligent design, because you have to wonder how the alien (or god) came about.

cyrus 19.02.2009 15:34

Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 400247)
Without God there is no clear definition of what is good and bad. There is no higher authority so everybody can decide for themselves what is good and what is bad and cannot be challenged because everything is a matter of opinion and perspective.

Of course atheists do claim there is an absolute good and an absolute bad but in doing so they are only referring to the judgement of an absolute God (who they otherwise reject). They call this God by various strange names such as a natural law or a natural morality to disguise the fact that it is a God. But they fail to explain how this natural law came to be if it is not a God or was not created by a God. As soon as they do go all the way and reject this natural law as being a replacement God, they are accepting there is no absolute good or bad but only a personal perspective.



I'd like to thank whoever posted the link to these videos here on this site, some great stuff


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