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  #1061  
Old 11.03.2009, 09:12
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Science is the "study of God". Man has not created anything. He only "discovers what already exist". For example electricity. Electricity always existed. It took the right "Soul" at the right time to discover it. Radio waves were already in the air. It took the right Soul to discover that they existed and invent away for us to pick them up hence the radio. Science can only study what already exist. The elements that created the atom bomb always existed. Science states that the atom is the basic component of matter. With this knowledge they invented the atomic bomb.

With science basically discovering the "body of God" he can do with this knowledge what he will because man has been given "free will". But the more science discovers the less they know. They cannot come to anything finite. Believe it or not science cannot save one life. It depends on a persons will. That is why a particular medicine may work for one person but will not work for another. They are all placebos. When a soul leaves the body there is nothing that science can do for that body. If they give that body medicine or food nothing can bring it back to consciousness. In a way its like scientist are in a playground given all the toys they want to play with.
They can't even explain why we exist and why we die. They can explain how.

The "ego" or "pseudo self" is totally immersed in fear because they feel that acknowledging God means that "they no longer exist" Which is so far from the truth. God is infinitely creative and has endowed each "soul" (or person) with their unique characteristics.

I'm happy...
First of all you didn't answer my questions to you on page 26.
Secondly, I am not too happy with my doctors either, can you introduce me a good shaman or monk or priest or mullah to get better medication for my problems?! I am sure they have saved many souls and lives than bloody doctors and scientists BTW, I thought health insurance is obligatory in CH

Thirdly, so you say universe is also a playground for god, same as scientists
4- I assume you go out naked as human has never created cloths, and born naked
5-Science has never discovered body of god.
6-Science can explain how things created, but relig. only claims to know why, nothing more than that!
7-pls. study more, unilke you say, Actually religions are quite based on Ego as they based their judgment on flatness and infinity of earth and importance of human and assuming all world is rotating around us and to serve human.
8- I am happy 2

Last edited by Macchiato; 11.03.2009 at 10:15.
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  #1062  
Old 11.03.2009, 09:48
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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I couldn't even begin to put it into words, certainly not in a short passage on a forum, but please don't patronise by assuming it's god that guides me and I simply don't realise it. Human behaviour is very a complex thing. Instinct certainly plays a part, and so does nurture, all evolving happily together to make us into a coherent society.
These are pretty much my thoughts, and my main problem with Phos's posting. Well, besides the obvious trolling. He now realizes he took it too far and went into "Can't we all just get along/Tell me your side of the story" mode, but I don't buy it. We can argue all we want for our ideas or right and wrong and their origins, but it's kinda hard to argue with this:
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I happen to believe we are divine.
Aaanyway, this is an interesting thought, though it may not have the effect he intended:
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If what can be seen and understood by a man is represented as a glass of water, there are yet oceans he will never realize
You know, this does make me think of how parochial the Bible is considering the edge of the known universe is 46 billion light years away. Its scope is almost comically limited. I know this doesn't discredit the theory of creation, but it does make us realize that with all we know now, putting credence into a text focused on a few tribes in the Middle East over a few thousand years as the be-all of creation and morals is kind of silly. Evolution is the one thing creationists tend to attack, because it is obviously the theory that is the easiest to poke holes in, but why isn't there more effort from creationists to discredit astronomy (which tells us things are billions of light years away), or even geology for that matter (with basic methods of stratigraphy, geologists can trace the age of the Earth back billions of years). Evolution should just be one front in a war against uncomfrotable scientific knowledge that makes old beliefs look absurd, but it's the one that nearly all their efforts are focused on. How credible does it make them seem?

The Universe is huge, bigger than any of us is capable of grasping. The Bible deals with nothing of it (besides the throwaway line of "He created the heavens"), limiting itself to, surprise surprise, things that would be directly accessible to a desert tribe thousands of years ago. Should that be our basis for our beliefs, our vision of right and wrong, anything? Considering everything we know about the world today.

But I'm sure it's just a coincidence and how God intended.
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  #1063  
Old 11.03.2009, 09:58
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Evolution is the one thing creationists tend to attack, because it is obviously the theory that is the easiest to poke holes in, but why isn't there more effort from creationists to discredit astronomy (which tells us things are billions of light years away), or even geology for that matter (with basic methods of stratigraphy, geologists can trace the age of the Earth back billions of years). Evolution should just be one front in a war against uncomfrotable scientific knowledge that makes old beliefs look absurd, but it's the one that nearly all their efforts are focused on. How credible does it make them seem?

The Universe is huge, bigger than any of us is capable of grasping. The Bible deals with nothing of it (besides the throwaway line of "He created the heavens"), limiting itself to, surprise surprise, things that would be directly accessible to a desert tribe thousands of years ago. Should that be our basis for our beliefs, our vision of right and wrong, anything? Considering everything we know about the world today.

But I'm sure it's just a coincidence and how God intended.

I'm not sure those who you call "creationists" are really as concerned with evolution as you would like to believe. But I do know a lot of believers do not have a problem with it. As for that place that is 46 billion light years away, have you been there lately?

Surely you can imagine that the vast majority of humanity will not have the opportunity, nor have the interest in exploring scientific fluff. Most of them are struggling to do right in an evil world, and how to get their next piece of bread. Some are little children, and some have severe disabilites. Those are the ones who scripture is for.
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  #1064  
Old 11.03.2009, 09:59
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Surely you can imagine that the vast majority of humanity will not have the opportunity, nor have the interest in exploring scientific fluff. Most of them are struggling to do right in an evil world, and how to get their next piece of bread. Some are little children, and some have severe disabilites. Those are the ones who scripture is for.
Absolutely, and more power to them.
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  #1065  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:00
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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The example of this is the life of Abraham. Abraham was not perfect. He committed a few acts like, pimping his wife out to the pharoah, sleeping with the housemaid. But remember that this was before the 10 commandments.
What version of the bible have you been reading Phos? The Pharaos never came into Abraham's stories.
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  #1066  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:00
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Absolutely, and more power to them.
And that power you just ascribed more of to them is the same one you've been trying to debunk all this time.
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  #1067  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:04
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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What version of the bible have you been reading Phos? The Pharaos never came into Abraham's stories.
The cool thing about the internet is that I can get original the greek and hebrew of bible passages, so I compare various translations.

Genesis 12:14-15
"When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that she was a very beautiful woman. And when Pharaoh's officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels."
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  #1068  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:06
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Surely you can imagine that the vast majority of humanity will not have the opportunity, nor have the interest in exploring scientific fluff. Most of them are struggling to do right in an evil world, and how to get their next piece of bread. Some are little children, and some have severe disabilites. Those are the ones who scripture is for.
We can also see scripture can be a force for more evil in such situations, deffering action in this life for a better life in the next. This isn't just about scientific "fluff", but social responsibility, medicine and tangible action. Scripture may give them hope, but is it false? and is it worth risking it?
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  #1069  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:11
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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We can also see scripture can be a force for more evil in such situations, deffering action in this life for a better life in the next. This isn't just about scientific "fluff", but social responsibility, medicine and tangible action. Scripture may give them hope, but is it false? and is it worth risking it?
First of all, who is to decide, you or them?
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  #1070  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:17
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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What version of the bible have you been reading Phos? The Pharaos never came into Abraham's stories.
Is there any valid evidence to believe Abram ever existed? I am curious to know.
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  #1071  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:17
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

Before anyone posts another knee-jerk argument... I'm not at all discrediting how science and technology is used to better lives.
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  #1072  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:18
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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First of all, who is to decide, you or them?
You're the one who decided they didn't need scientific "fluff"
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  #1073  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:18
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Is there any valid evidence to believe Abram ever existed? I am curious to know.
I haven't seen any photographs. But the best evidence is his impact on humanity.
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  #1074  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:19
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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You're the one who decided they didn't need scientific "fluff"
I did not at all. All I said is that it is irrelevant for them, and they don't even have the opportunity for it.
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  #1075  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:27
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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I did not at all. All I said is that it is irrelevant for them, and they don't even have the opportunity for it.
Irrevelant? I think that's part of the problem, religion, or faith based groups trying their best to make science irrelevant. What use is going around telling people all medicines are placebos? That you need spiritual scientists?
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  #1076  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:31
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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And that power you just ascribed more of to them is the same one you've been trying to debunk all this time.
People will believe what they want to believe, and they are completely free to do it, but neither should they expect society to wait for them to catch up when new knowledge comes into light and makes their beliefs outdated. In any case, these aren't the people who are pushing for creation being taught in schools or repressing freedom of expression on the sides of buses, so my fight is not with them. May they live their lives in happiness. I'm sorry if their feelings get hurt as windfall of a bigger debate, but oh well.
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  #1077  
Old 11.03.2009, 10:34
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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I haven't seen any photographs. But the best evidence is his impact on humanity.
The way you talked about him, I thought you have reference in Youtube !

So the evidence is coming out of impact?!
Believing on flatness of earth for thousand years had more impact on humanity, so world is flat
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  #1078  
Old 11.03.2009, 11:07
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Is there any valid evidence to believe Abram ever existed? I am curious to know.
What evidence is there for the existence of most people we know about from early history? Mostly we rely on what was handed down and not really written down until long afterwards.

So are you calling all of early history into question?
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  #1079  
Old 11.03.2009, 11:10
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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Believing on flatness of earth for thousand years had more impact on humanity, so world is flat
Actually not. The ancient Greeks and Egyptians did not believe in a flat world. They knew it was round, although there was some debate over its exact shape and dimensions.

The Flat Earth theory is newer than the Round Earth theory, just as atheism is newer than religion.
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  #1080  
Old 11.03.2009, 11:13
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Re: Atheist bus campaign in CH

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I happen to believe we are divine.
How about other animals ? Or are humans "special" ?

Can non-humans have morals ?

If yes, do all animals get to have morals, or do, say, shellfish and insects have to go without ?
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