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Old 18.06.2009, 14:55
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Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

i will not paste it, as it's too long

http://www.modernghana.com/newsp/222...rican-and.html

i'm not saying i agree with it or not, just wanted to show how some people might think about switzerland
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:13
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

Very uncomfortable reading, however I cannot but help feel a sense of blame shifting by the author e.g why don't US, French, German or British politicians have secret Swiss bank accounts??
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:22
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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Very uncomfortable reading, however I cannot but help feel a sense of blame shifting by the author e.g why don't US, French, German or British politicians have secret Swiss bank accounts??
Well some Germans had... but I agree: Blaming the banks for the corruption is a very special approach: Do we need to eliminate all possibilities for politicians to do unethical things?
That will be a hard job. I thought their job is to take the right decisions themselve.
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:24
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

Perhaps they should also have a look at Delaware as well.
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:33
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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Perhaps they should also have a look at Delaware as well.
from what i understand, banking secrecy and tax heavens are two different things. the author of the article is mainly focusing on the banking secrecy laws, and Delaware is tax heaven.
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:41
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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from what i understand, banking secrecy and tax heavens are two different things. the author of the article is mainly focusing on the banking secrecy laws, and Delaware is tax heaven.
And this is exactly where the author went wrong/did not see the real picture: Why did every dictator since Hitler try to have his money here? I am sure there are enough "discrete" banks in Africa or anywhere else.

The big advantage of Switzerland is the stability: While I have a hard time to think of any spot in the third world and especially Africa that did not have a communist revolution, religious extremists, ethnic tensions or any other form of civil war in the last fifty years, your money is pretty safe in Switzerland. You do not need the secrecy, you can build up some fake companies in your country already and wash the money there... the whole point is to have a place to store it in the not so stable times.
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:43
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

As a citizen of a country that was ravaged by one of the dictators mentioned in the article, it brings up very angry feelings.

But, what can we do about it? We knew this already ... I also blame my own country for not fighting enough.

Before we blame the Swiss, we also need to loook at ourselves or the countries that claim to have lost billions to Switzerland. What have they done about it?
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Old 18.06.2009, 15:52
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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And this is exactly where the author went wrong/did not see the real picture: Why did every dictator since Hitler try to have his money here? I am sure there are enough "discrete" banks in Africa or anywhere else.

...
i was just correcting somebody that Delaware has nothing to do with it.

i agree with the stability thing, if it was the only reason why switzerland is/was so good place to stash some illegal money, then fine. but the problems are secrecy laws.

imagine a country that says 'we welcome all criminals who pay us 1.000.000 $ cash, we provide you everything you need and we will not send you back to your home country'. I'm not saying this is like this with Switzerland and banking secrecy. but you are talking about different issue here.

stability and low taxes are one (or two things)

banking secrecy and tax avoidance are other

P.S. i'm not on the author side, i'm just trying to correct people that in my opinion are mixing two different things
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Old 18.06.2009, 16:36
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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imagine a country that says 'we welcome all criminals who pay us 1.000.000 $ cash, we provide you everything you need and we will not send you back to your home country'. I'm not saying this is like this with Switzerland and banking secrecy. but you are talking about different issue here.
No, I am not talking about a different issue here. I strongly believe there are quite a lot of countries which would cover you up if you in fact go there and tell them: "Look at my millions, do you want them? Then protect me."
There are more countries with bank secrecy as well. Half of the Caribbean countries has. Why do all of the guys prefer Switzerland? Is it the mountains? Probably not.

The point is that most of those places have their own stability issues. And you do not want to risk your "hard earned bribes" to drown in another countries´ revolution, do you?

So you cannot disconnect the secrecy from the stability: Even if the secrecy is gone I am sure that many people from around the less stable parts of the world will keep bank accounts here.
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Old 18.06.2009, 19:15
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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Perhaps they should also have a look at Delaware as well.
i totally agree with this.....living in philly afforded us many tax free shopping trips!
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Old 18.06.2009, 19:18
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

upon moving here the question everyone asked the most about it was 'how can i get my money there' or 'do you get a swiss bank account' as some kind of novelty...

i have heard things where people could fly into zurich and leave money at banks in the airports with just an account number and never had to clear any customs....and hopped on the next plane to wherever they were going....

but yeah deleware and this article have absolutely nothing in common.
just giving a shout out for dware!
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Old 18.06.2009, 19:35
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

Yes, they hide the money in Zurich and Geneva and the eggs in Easter Switzerland

I don't know why the Abacha money is always given that much emphasis. Probably because it was one of the first cases in recent history or because it's about big sums of money. Certainly not because Switzerland acted uncooperatively.

I take the data of this timeline from the BBC website and the Swiss NGO Erklärung von Bern, both certainly can't be accused to represent the interests of the Swiss government:

30.9.1999: Nigeria announces a letters rogatory in the matter.
30.10.1999: Switzerland preventively freezes some accounts.
12.2.2000: Official letters rogatory is received by the Federal Department of Justice
9.5.2000: Luxembourg freezes accounts.
June 2000: The UK refuse to freeze accounts before a formal investigation takes place in Nigeria.
3.10.2001: UK freezes suspect accounts.
16.2.2005: After an interrupted court case in Switzerland and extra-court negotiations, the federal court judges that $458 mil. of the $505 mil. Abacha assets is criminal money to be given back to Nigeria.
27.5.2005: Nigeria agrees to spend the money on infrastructure and education and to have this monitored.
1.9.2005: Switzerland and the World Bank agree that the latter shall monitor that the money gets spent according to its purpose.
May/June 2006: The World Bank performs two monitorings about how the money was spent.
5.12.2006: Basler Zeitung makes public that $200 mil. of the money was lost in dark channels. NGOs and later the World Bank confirm it.

Switzerland acted earlier than other involved countries and certainly isn't to blame alone for the loss.

Sources:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/741506.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/980845.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1576527.stm
http://www.evb.ch/p25011595.html
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Old 18.06.2009, 23:54
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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upon moving here the question everyone asked the most about it was 'how can i get my money there' or 'do you get a swiss bank account' as some kind of novelty...

i have heard things where people could fly into zurich and leave money at banks in the airports with just an account number and never had to clear any customs....and hopped on the next plane to wherever they were going....

but yeah deleware and this article have absolutely nothing in common.
just giving a shout out for dware!
of course it doesn't in terms of this 'article' . you went tax-free shopping - and you think it's the same as stashing (dirty) money in numbered account? no, something different.

i think most of you are just acting emotionally, because you live in this country, you want to defend it.

for example, i think the article might have been right, but quite a few years ago - and also even then, blaming ONLY Switzerland is of course not objective. Clearly Switzerland signed tax treaties with many countries and IS cooperating, as Nathu has pointed out. This is, in my opinion, only valid point.

people still fail to understand two things:
1. tax secrecy laws
2. low (or no) taxes

Delaware number 2, Switzerland number 1 and 2.

cannot explain it better.
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Old 19.06.2009, 10:58
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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people still fail to understand two things:
1. tax secrecy laws
2. low (or no) taxes

Delaware number 2, Switzerland number 1 and 2.
What about Nevada or the UK ?
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Old 21.06.2009, 00:26
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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of course it doesn't in terms of this 'article' . you went tax-free shopping - and you think it's the same as stashing (dirty) money in numbered account? no, something different.

people still fail to understand two things:
1. tax secrecy laws
2. low (or no) taxes

Delaware number 2, Switzerland number 1 and 2.

cannot explain it better.
I disagree. If you are a non-US citizen that does not reside in the US, Delaware is the perfect place to hide your money and not be taxed (no state or federal taxes). You just open a shell company and list some clerk as a contact. Your name does not appear anywhere.
Billions of $ are recycled through Delaware coming from south America or Russia every year.
Of course Joe Biden is pretty silent about it (for once) and populist Carl Levin prefers to blast Switzerland.
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Old 24.06.2009, 17:27
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

I think the principle flaw in the article is that it seemingly puts the responsibility on the off shore bank (principally Swiss) for the woes of the country that loses the money.

Unfortunately, the reality is that such corruption, such misappropriation, is not actually carried out by the Swiss or bankers in any other country. If there were no Swiss banks, the money would go elsewhere. If there were no banks to accept it, other means would be found to launder and hide it.

The problem ultimately lies with those who carry out such corruption, such misappropriation, and they tend to be native to those nations. Blaming the Swiss, or any other, banking system for their deeds really is the epitome of the 'victim culture' that appears to define how, in particular, sub-Saharan Africa sees itself and worse still actively creates a scapegoat that detracts everyone from the real cause and, by extension, its solution.
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Old 24.06.2009, 20:05
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

a few years ago, Switzerland sold many tons of gold. this was one of the worst decisions ever made, and was surely an order from the international banking cartels. that's what they are. cartels. all throughout history, people have been at the mercy of governments who take away their rights. the problem here, is that the other countries should have secrecy too. the government now prints money, causes inflation, all for "favors" which will then end to more prying into our lives, more control, and in the end, there is no freedom at all. that is the goal of the EU central bank, etc. Oh ya, by the way, the Federal Reserve bank in the US is a PRIVATE bank, never audited, and the owners are SECRET. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gorG2XYYZno
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Old 25.06.2009, 01:36
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

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a few years ago, Switzerland sold many tons of gold. this was one of the worst decisions ever made, and was surely an order from the international banking cartels. that's what they are. cartels. all throughout history, people have been at the mercy of governments who take away their rights. the problem here, is that the other countries should have secrecy too. the government now prints money, causes inflation, all for "favors" which will then end to more prying into our lives, more control, and in the end, there is no freedom at all. that is the goal of the EU central bank, etc. Oh ya, by the way, the Federal Reserve bank in the US is a PRIVATE bank, never audited, and the owners are SECRET.
very true the bankers rule the world, most major corporations are banker owned and were even started by the banks. theyre talking about global bailouts now, although i wouldnt doubt that, its been happening for a while, the markets need to crash. that will bring real change but they dont want that so there doing it slowly and buying up everything including national parks, corporations, governments. after control of everything is obtained masses will be on their knees begging for help, majority of 3rd world countries are running on straight aid, its sad.
911 was an inside job, the war on terror is a manipulizing joke, the UN, trilateral commission, council of foriegn relations, the vatican ( which has one of the most profitable and secret banks as well) are all part of an agenda to bring in global governance, haha sorry i always get too into it when topics like these come up
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Old 25.06.2009, 06:55
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

What a crock o' horse dodoo!! Since when are Goldman Sachs, City Bank and BNP Swiss banks. If the US (and others) have problems with their overseas operations then maybe the US (and others) should sort them out. People often forget it takes two banks to do a financial transaction, or did all of these dictators transport their money over the border using US bonds a suitcase and a couple Asian business men? Oh wait how did they then get the bonds then?

This author has no idea what he/she is talking about. For one Mr. So-Damn Insane (Sadam to his friends) had to use Swiss banks to pay the US arms companies for paying for the weapons gotten to wage war against Iran. Take note, United States of America's arms manufacturers got the money in their bank accounts.

This is like blaming the gun manufacturer when a postal worker takes his rifle to work one day.... Or why not blame the telephone company for Internet music piracy.

Crock o' horse dodoo!!

< rant over >
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Old 25.06.2009, 10:37
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Re: Switzerland a 'parasite' ?

http://www.infowars.com
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