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  #21  
Old 10.10.2009, 18:15
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration

gives a starting point for further stats.

Canada, for example has the highest per capita immigration in the world. I know for sure that >50% of Toronto and Vancouver are immigrants (born outside of Canada).
Well, we have a conflict ... according to the first link, in Andorra over 77% of the national population are immigrants ... while Canada is under 20% on that chart ... is this because of a different definition of 'immigrant'? Or have the stats changed so greatly between the two reports that were used as references?

On another point, I always found it funny (not amusing!) in Australia when first-generation Australians (ie, those born in Australia to foreign-born parents) hassled those "straight off the boat" ... although tbh, everyone apart from one racial group is a recent arrival (in the last coupla hundred years, rather than 40 000 or so). Still, despite governments trying to make it even more difficult for refugees to 'arrive' in Australia, we have a large immigration rate per capita ... which some people realise is essential, since my selfish generation are either having less children or none at all (on average - I have a couple of friends who have five kids ... and I have three ...). Would be nice if more of them moved to rural areas, although there are great difficulties in that model to be overcome ...
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  #22  
Old 10.10.2009, 18:40
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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Isn't that the difference between expats, who go to another country for work-related reasons and may or may not stay, and immigrants, who leave their country of origin - and who generally do not return.
That's how I see it but like DB, I don't think immigrants should be tagged as desperate. When I came here the first time I came for a few years and saw myself as an expat. When I came here the second time I came with the intention of staying permanently and now see myself as an immigrant. But it was my free choice.
There can be a big difference psychologically between seeing yourself as an expat and seeing yourself as an immigrant and it can work itself into your attitudes and behaviour. it certainly has in my case. I think sometimes that goes someway to explaining the diversity of viewpoints on Swiss life expressed on this forum from foreigners living here.
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  #23  
Old 10.10.2009, 18:47
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

Probably easiest to drop the terms 'expat' and 'immigrant' and just use the more general (and less loaded) word 'migrant'.
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  #24  
Old 10.10.2009, 19:23
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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Probably easiest to drop the terms 'expat' and 'immigrant' and just use the more general (and less loaded) word 'migrant'.
To me, migrant is far more loaded. I get an image of the economic migrants from Africa coming over on boats, which has caused a lot of problems in some areas. Or in the US, where migrants usually also cross illegally over from Mexico.

Immigrant and expat imply legality to me, whereas migrant implies illegal - however wrong I might be, that's how it comes across.
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  #25  
Old 10.10.2009, 19:31
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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Isn't that the difference between expats, who go to another country for work-related reasons and may or may not stay, and immigrants, who leave their country of origin for much more serious reasons - war, poverty, political exile, etc - and who generally do not return.
I beg to differ - immigrant simply means you move to another country permanently for whatever reason. A refugee (or an asylum seeker) is one who flees to another country because of the reasons you've cited. People have always immigrated and this was acceptable for thousands of years. It's especially over the past century or so that such a stigma has been attached to immigration.
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  #26  
Old 10.10.2009, 19:47
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

The UN definition of "migrant" in the cited statistics is "a resident born in another country". Thus all naturalized citizens are migrants. And non-citizens are not migrants if they are born in the country of residence.

That is how the UN defines it. But the UN is consolidating statistics received from member countries. These countries may have another definition. Swiss statistics usually count the percentage of non-citizens. I doubt CH analyzes place of birth.
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  #27  
Old 12.10.2009, 09:11
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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I was wondering, what is technically an immigrant? After 20 years in a foreign country, are you still an immigrant?

As soon as you have the citizenship of Switzerland (legally of one of the Cantons of Switzerland) you no longer are an immigrant. You are allowed to retain as many other citizenships as you like.



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I would disagree. I think is it basically were you born elsewhere and immigrated into the country. I am still an in immigrant to Canada, even though a fully integrated citizen. The fact that the latter is normal is one of Canada's strong points.
The place of birth, at least here in Switzerland, is irrelevent. An Italian citizen, born in Zurich, is legally an immigrant until the person becomes a Swiss citizen.
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  #28  
Old 12.10.2009, 12:49
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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I don't think immigrant communities can be so starkly divided into 'immigrant' and 'expat' boxes based on desperation and poverty, as you imply. In fact, it's just a tad patronising.

Life is rarely so simple.
I read her post too fast. I only use the differentiation as per intent. Immigrant means you move to a place to stay, no matter the reason. Expat, temp posting or student. It is obvious people use many different technical and interpreted meanings. In Canada, we use the word as is, to mean someone who immigrated, no matter when or why. Why is why teh % stat on the table seemed a bit surprising.
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  #29  
Old 20.10.2009, 21:22
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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I was wondering, what is technically an immigrant? After 20 years in a foreign country, are you still an immigrant?
....

technically an immigrant means someone who has retained his original citizenship after 20 years is still an immigrant.

practically not an immigrant
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  #30  
Old 24.10.2009, 10:07
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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  #31  
Old 24.10.2009, 11:52
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

What defines an immigrant? Did anybody see the BNP's Nick Griffin struggling to define "Indigenous" on BBC's Question Time a couple of days ago? It was funny. Here's his definition:

"The indigenous people of this island are the English, the Scots the Irish and the Welsh... colour is irrelevant, it's the people who have been here overwhelmingly for the last 17,000 years."
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  #32  
Old 24.10.2009, 12:06
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

I watched it. He's getting a lot of grief, and rightly so, over some ideas he would like implemented regarding immigration, which already exist here.

Last edited by i-b-deborah; 26.10.2009 at 06:11. Reason: i before e
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  #33  
Old 24.10.2009, 12:13
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

My interpretation of Ex-pat & immigrant is this:-

eg..A Canadian leaves Canada he calls himself an Ex-pat, when this same Canadian arrives in Switzerland to live & work, He still classes himself as an Ex-pat, but the Swiss see him as an immigrant..
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  #34  
Old 24.10.2009, 20:02
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Re: List of countries by immigrant population

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I am technically an immigrant to Canada, but in practice, hardly so. You could not distinguish me from a native-born.
other than your ... uhh... tan maybe ?
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