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  #81  
Old 08.06.2011, 16:11
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I might be going toa conference in Amsterdam in November, I'll bear this in mind
Especially considering the strength of CHF against the EUR!!
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  #82  
Old 08.06.2011, 18:19
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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hey, why do those things never happen to me
x2

On the whole sweet 16 debate.. I cant believe there is a debate about it at all. 16 yo hookers. crikey.. parents must be of the line of thought that if there is grass on the wicket lets play cricket.. and the customers.. Dodgy critters.
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  #83  
Old 09.06.2011, 14:58
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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x2

On the whole sweet 16 debate.. I cant believe there is a debate about it at all. 16 yo hookers. crikey.. parents must be of the line of thought that if there is grass on the wicket lets play cricket.. and the customers.. Dodgy critters.

There is no real debate about it. But it also is not handled with too much priority. The country survived the 16-limit for decades. It most certainly will be re-fixed onto 18 years.
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  #84  
Old 09.06.2011, 16:39
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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if there is grass on the wicket lets play cricket..
i have nothing to add to this thread, but am loving this saying. in the US we say "if there's grass on the field, play ball"

edit: only because it's funny! not in a creepy way.
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  #85  
Old 09.06.2011, 17:39
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

I have been arguing for something to be done about teh legal age of prostitution since 2008 on this forum, when there was a Nov 30 vote on a change in the law concerning child pornography:

Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...


Re: Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...
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Nathu

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The people voted in favor of the initiative with 52%. I think it's remarkable that two of the three latest successful initiatives are crime-related.
SAveci
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"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation"

Fellow readers can easily identify the source of this citation...
I received quite a bit of criticism as many seem to think that this would be an infringement of civil liberties. That 16 year-old ( show are still in many respects legally classed as children) should be allowed to prostitute themselves. I was also criticized for saying that I would raise the age of prostitution to 18 yet keep the age of consent to 16, that the two were in-congruent and so my basic argument flawed. Now it seems that my argument was correct.


As far as I know the Swiss changed the constitution change last year raised the age to 18 so why is is taking so long to become law? They dragged their heels on ruling on child pornography, now the Swiss dragging their heels on this-why?
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  #86  
Old 09.06.2011, 17:43
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I have been arguing for something to be done about teh legal age of prostitution since 2008 on this forum, when there was a Nov 30 vote on a change in the law concerning child pornography:

Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...


Re: Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...
Quote:
Nathu



SAveci


I received quite a bit of criticism as many seem to think that this would be an infringement of civil liberties. That 16 year-old ( show are still in many respects legally classed as children) should be allowed to prostitute themselves. I was also criticized for saying that I would raise the age of prostitution to 18 yet keep the age of consent to 16, that the two were in-congruent and so my basic argument flawed. Now it seems that my argument was correct.


As far as I know the Swiss changed the constitution change last year raised the age to 18 so why is is taking so long to become law? They dragged their heels on ruling on child pornography, now the Swiss dragging their heels on this-why?
Maybe certain lawmakers have been making certain visits
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  #87  
Old 09.06.2011, 18:18
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I have been arguing for something to be done about teh legal age of prostitution since 2008 on this forum, when there was a Nov 30 vote on a change in the law concerning child pornography:

Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...


Re: Swiss vote Nov 30: clarifcation on crime limitation thing...
Quote:
Nathu



SAveci


I received quite a bit of criticism as many seem to think that this would be an infringement of civil liberties. That 16 year-old ( show are still in many respects legally classed as children) should be allowed to prostitute themselves. I was also criticized for saying that I would raise the age of prostitution to 18 yet keep the age of consent to 16, that the two were in-congruent and so my basic argument flawed. Now it seems that my argument was correct.


As far as I know the Swiss changed the constitution change last year raised the age to 18 so why is is taking so long to become law? They dragged their heels on ruling on child pornography, now the Swiss dragging their heels on this-why?
What's the matter ? The law was approved only a year ago. It will, after some final definitions and touches and specifications and clarifications become both law and part of the Federal constitution within less than 5 years !
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  #88  
Old 09.06.2011, 19:17
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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What's the matter ? The law was approved only a year ago. It will, after some final definitions and touches and specifications and clarifications become both law and part of the Federal constitution within less than 5 years !
5 years
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  #89  
Old 10.06.2011, 06:59
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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What's the matter ? The law was approved only a year ago. It will, after some final definitions and touches and specifications and clarifications become both law and part of the Federal constitution within less than 5 years !
I'm sorry but I'm gonna call bullshit!

The only reason I can see for dragging feet so long is that either the legislators like this perquisite or the money that pushes politics is worried that there won't be as much conference business if the lure of the only Western European nation that will let adults legally have sex with minors for cash no longer exists.

I quite literally cannot see any other reason for this to still not be sorted out.

When the will exists, the Swiss system seems to be able to move quite quickly. When there is no will it seems to move with glacial slowness that would make any bureaucracy proud.

I know that LiB has said it before but I am starting to think that he may have been conservative in his assertion that Switzerland is 30 years behind. In some things it seems like 50 or more.

And to those who say that there are no laws and tha prostitution needs to be a "business" before it can be outlawed, BS again. There are plenty of rules and regulations and laws, including those that state that under 18 year olds can't work with other parties acting on their behalf (read, no pimps for children).

The laws that exist, both within Switzerland and in the treaties that she has signed, are clear enough and allow the banning of this reprehensible practice. I can't begin to understand the rational of anyone who says otherwise.

As has been observed, allowing 16 year olds to practice prostitution means that girls have to start sliding down he slippery slope at the age of 15 or 14. As member's of this society, one doesn't need much of a moral compass to realize how wrong this is. Or do we?
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Last edited by the_clangers; 10.06.2011 at 07:03. Reason: Typo
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  #90  
Old 10.06.2011, 08:54
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

Just a coincidence I guess, I am reading this now.. in Amsterdam.
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  #91  
Old 10.06.2011, 10:26
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

I think that even though it is not law anymore, the change in Constitution is being enforced, case in point,

Last year there is a brothel/stripclub in Wetzikon ZH, that was advertising on the website that their employees were "sweet 16", just turned 16, ect.

A women's rights organization took them to task, and legal action was threatened. The owner withdrew his adverts and his 16year old employees.
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  #92  
Old 10.06.2011, 13:47
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

Problem is the law should be about maturity and not linked to a specific age but I have no clue about how to do that.

I know ladies in their 30s who ought to be protected and also ladies under 16 who are more than capable of protecting themselves.
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  #93  
Old 10.06.2011, 14:50
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I'm sorry but I'm gonna call bullshit!

The only reason I can see for dragging feet so long is that either the legislators like this perquisite or the money that pushes politics is worried that there won't be as much conference business if the lure of the only Western European nation that will let adults legally have sex with minors for cash no longer exists.

I quite literally cannot see any other reason for this to still not be sorted out.

When the will exists, the Swiss system seems to be able to move quite quickly. When there is no will it seems to move with glacial slowness that would make any bureaucracy proud.

I know that LiB has said it before but I am starting to think that he may have been conservative in his assertion that Switzerland is 30 years behind. In some things it seems like 50 or more.

And to those who say that there are no laws and tha prostitution needs to be a "business" before it can be outlawed, BS again. There are plenty of rules and regulations and laws, including those that state that under 18 year olds can't work with other parties acting on their behalf (read, no pimps for children).

The laws that exist, both within Switzerland and in the treaties that she has signed, are clear enough and allow the banning of this reprehensible practice. I can't begin to understand the rational of anyone who says otherwise.

As has been observed, allowing 16 year olds to practice prostitution means that girls have to start sliding down he slippery slope at the age of 15 or 14. As member's of this society, one doesn't need much of a moral compass to realize how wrong this is. Or do we?
A) no, it is far worse, as even if the will is given, new laws approved by a Federal public vote go to the Senate (Ständerat) and the House of Representatives (Nationalrat) for final touches etc and then finally to the Federal Government. The procedures need at least 2 years, usually 3 to 5

B) There was a reason why the co-founder of the Federal Republic of Germany, Federal President Theodor Heuss, when somebody proposed to take over the Swiss system for the newly established FRG stated "Nur über meine Leiche" !

C) 20 years behind ? In a way I would rather say 50 years. And it in reality becomes worse by the year, as more and more matters become subject to the voting system.

D) what I detest about the CH system is that simple laws are made articles of the constitution, which is bad and slows things down even further. So that, exactly as Theodor Heuss already in 1948 concluded, the system may be extremely democratic, but is definitely very slow.

E) Even fairly simple laws like the voting right for women on the Federal level need between early 1970 and late 1972 to get fully implemented

F) Over to LiB. I already then made it clear, that quite many of his "reservations" were highly justified, while being presented a bit too categorically and too strictly

G) Further on, imagine that any place with either more than 10'000 inhabitants or a medieval city-fortification is legally a "City" with a City-government (president and between 5 and 12 ministers), a fully established parliament, a City Police, its municipal education structure, etc

*** So that I back what I said, that the law in question will be in full force within 5 years since the vote (4 years now).
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Old 10.06.2011, 14:57
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I think that even though it is not law anymore, the change in Constitution is being enforced, case in point,

Last year there is a brothel/stripclub in Wetzikon ZH, that was advertising on the website that their employees were "sweet 16", just turned 16, ect.

A women's rights organization took them to task, and legal action was threatened. The owner withdrew his adverts and his 16year old employees.
No, federal laws are NOT "enforced" before they become valid laws. You however have to see that Wetzikon is "Stadt Wetzikon", and the owner of that place there realized that they could have taken the matter to government and parliament of the City, which could have passed a municipal regulation, prohibiting prostitution below age 18 . Or even robbing him of his permission. In small cities, such things go through fairly fast ! So that this shows the advantage of the exceedingly federalist democracy in this country.
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Old 10.06.2011, 15:29
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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Just a coincidence I guess, I am reading this now.. in Amsterdam.
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I think that even though it is not law anymore, the change in Constitution is being enforced, case in point,

Last year there is a brothel/stripclub in Wetzikon ZH, that was advertising on the website that their employees were "sweet 16", just turned 16, ect.

A women's rights organization took them to task, and legal action was threatened. The owner withdrew his adverts and his 16year old employees.

I think that the law it is being enforced in Zurich and Geneva, but other cantons have yet to follow. This was in Swiss info in February:

Quote:
While canton Geneva and now also Zurich city authorities forbid prostitution under 18 by restricting work permits, other cities and cantons are waiting for the legal age to be increased at the federal level, a move which is in the pipeline.
Isn't Amsterdam pushing for raising the limit to 21 or 23?
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/re...light-district

Or am I getting mixed up with the Pot shops? I heard a report somewhere that they are fed up with foreigners, not knowing the social limit.

I do worry about the slave trade, Maybe I am going over the top, but I just imagine that even younger teens are being illegally brought in. Slave trade sex happens here in the US. Many say that it is just young girls turning tricks to buy a new handbags etc. But others claim that the teenagers are feeding a drug habit.

I think that in Switzerland they like to give people a chance to adapt so that the courts don't get overloaded with prosecutions. http://tdh-childprotection.org/news/...tutes-rejected



This is a highly lucrative trade, so they many be reluctant to go after Johns and pimps. One thing that I have to keep in mind is that we are not just talking about girls, there are always underage boys prostituting too.

This Wigger woman social worker sound so naiive:


Quote:
In her 15 years work in this field, she has not observed any increase in youth prostitution. “The reality is that girls under 18 working as prostitutes tend to be drug addicts trying to finance their habit.”

Despite occasional reports of human trafficking, underage girls from eastern Europe are not a problem, according to Wigger. “Because women who want to work here need a work and residency permit which they would never receive if they were not yet 18.”
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=29513332


(...)





Quote:
Leupi explained that the city council's goal in introducing the measures was to combat human trafficking,......The proposed measures, which need the city council's approval, include forbidding street prostitution along the Sihlquai riverbank and in the busy Langstrasse area. In exchange, the activity will be allowed between Aargauerstrasse and Würzgrabenstrasse, outside the city center, where booths will be built to accommodate sex workers and their customers.
These sex boxes sound like a joke I keep imaginging Woody Allen's orgasmatron:



http://bonjourplanetearth.blogspot.c...boxes-for.html

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Old 10.06.2011, 19:56
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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Problem is the law should be about maturity and not linked to a specific age but I have no clue about how to do that.

I know ladies in their 30s who ought to be protected and also ladies under 16 who are more than capable of protecting themselves.
TYou obviously haven't got a 15 year old daughter! I was very mature at 15- and well, if the truth be known.... and no regrets there it was wonderful. But prostitution is just another story altogether- if you can't see that
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  #97  
Old 10.06.2011, 23:00
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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I think that the law it is being enforced in Zurich and Geneva, but other cantons have yet to follow. This was in Swiss info in February:
Nobody can or will enforce a proposed and approved law, as enforcing not yet existing laws would be illegal. But Cantons and Cities alike can introduce regulations with the effect of a proposed and approved federal law. These regulations stay in force in full even if the federal law in the end would not be so strict.
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  #98  
Old 10.06.2011, 23:40
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

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TYou obviously haven't got a 15 year old daughter! I was very mature at 15- and well, if the truth be known.... and no regrets there it was wonderful. But prostitution is just another story altogether- if you can't see that
Clearly you misunderstood my point.

My point was that some people need to be protected by the law, usually such people are the weak & vulnerable.

You cannot say everybody under age x is weak & vulnerable & everybody over age x is strong & not vulnerable; life is not like that.
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Old 10.06.2011, 23:43
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

if they are going to regulate, i would propose setting a maximum age or a minimum level of attractiveness. let's say at least a '7' on the universal beauty scale. maybe have annual re-testing/licensing.
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Old 10.06.2011, 23:49
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Re: Prostitutes should be at least 18 says the Cabinet

Yes, we are all different. But as a mother, grand-mother and a secondary school teacher for over 30 years (and very street wise with that) NO 16 year old is likely not to be damaged for life by prostitution. End off (no pun intended). As said, you obviously haven't got or have never had, a 16 year old daughter.
Last comment was sick Phil, sorry.
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