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  #61  
Old 04.06.2010, 10:24
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

I think all of you on this thread who say they could beat a CPU are bluffing.

Like i said though, i'm not very good at poker.
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  #62  
Old 04.06.2010, 10:30
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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You have a point, just not one that is applicable to poker as it is being discussed in this thread. The only poker this applies to is to casino table game variations like Caribbean stud poker which is more akin to blackjack than poker as a player plays against the house. In true poker a player plays against other players. The house merely provides the facilities (table and dealer) and takes a comission from every pot. This game is beatable because I can play against other players where the "edge" is determined by who is the best player rather than conditions intrinsic to the game (such as the red-black bet in roulette paying evens for a 18-19 shot). If my advantage over the other players is greater than the comission the house takes from pots I win, then I make money
For games of chance where the player plays against the house casinos rely on the law of large numbers and table limits to make sure they always win...The difference between casinos and financial markets is that in casinos the model is perfect becuase they deal with outcomes of events with known probabilities. Beautifully normally distributed returns lacking fat tails. What a beautiful way to make money.
Interesting as the business is, the point you are making does not apply here as poker is player vs player rather than player vs house with a house edge.
I don't disagree with the point that you are making, with regard to Poker.

I was arguing against the point that others had made about Games of Chance (as they are legally called in my country, don't know about here) being talked about as if there is skill involved when it is not possible. You will always loose.

You can only win at games, like cards, because you can keep track of the cards, or figure the odds, or read and manipulate the people you are playing against. These things require skill or innate ability, whether intuitive or analytical doesn't matter. As soon as you remove these factors, you are back to games of chance, like war or snap. Well, even snap has some skill, involved. Just not much.

The table limits are to keep the customers from loosing too much money at one go, they have very little to do with protecting the casino, except in terms of Public Relations. I mean, why would the casino want to be protected from making too much money?

True, excepting the part where the House, regardless of how you define it, does get a cut (rake) and/or receives remuneration from the players for the privilege of playing. If you stop and think about it, Poker is an even better money maker, as way too many people think that they are good at it and very few people really are. And where ever you play, unless you are playing privately, who ever owns the venue you are using gets a cut of the action, in some fashion.

My main point in all this is that Poker is NOT the same in character or nature to Roulette, or Craps, or any other "Game of Chance." The fact that it involves elements of chance makes no difference, there are too many non chance related elements involved.

The most important thing is probably what litespeed pointed out earlier. All of these games are gambling, and in some cases of a fairly high order. It probably would be best if they were closely monitored. I know for a fact that in some cases, certain organisations use these events to launder money, so the more above board they can be the better.
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  #63  
Old 04.06.2010, 10:32
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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I think all of you on this thread who say they could beat a CPU are bluffing.

Like i said though, i'm not very good at poker.


I tend to agree. Something tells me just because I pwn my mobile phones poker game doesn't mean playing polaris or similar wouldn't be a tad more painful .
As I said before quality of machine vs quality of player. Even without really knowing how advanced Polaris is I'd happily put a chunk of cash on it being able to comprehensively trash any player on this list, unless we have a 12 tabling internet pro lurking in the wings who hasn't posted yet..
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  #64  
Old 10.06.2010, 14:32
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

Poker doesn't have to be either chance or skill, it has elements of both. The question is "to which degree". The answer depends strongly on how often you play - any single hand is almost 50-50 between any 2 players (of any skill level), but over the long run the skillful player will have a considerable advantage (but it still vulnerable to bad or good luck, which you cannot eliminate altogether).

I guess you have to draw the line somewhere and the Swiss have put it on the "gambling" side of the line - but it always surprises me that you're able to invest your life savings in the stock market, but cannot enter a 100 CHF poker tournament every week!!

Alex.

p.s. if you live in the Zug/ZurichLuzern area and you're actually interested in playing some poker, rather than just discussing it, then PM me as I organise a regular game!!
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  #65  
Old 10.06.2010, 14:38
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

firstly, you can gather stats on how many hands get to showdown. for the sake of argument, let's say this is 30%.

this should establish the upper bound on the element of luck.
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  #66  
Old 10.06.2010, 15:27
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

It sucks that they are closing the clubs, however a friend tells me that the clubs want to fight against this law and if necessary will use a federal poll so people in Switzerland can vote for or against it.

On the other hand, when I mentioned I would be holding a game only Shove replied, I guess the rest of you were all bluffing about wanting to play and being good
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  #67  
Old 24.06.2010, 10:25
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

More news is coming out from the poker world and I get a news email from www.pokeracademy.ch every now and then.

It answers the questions "Where and how can you play legally?"

Legal Pokerspielen?

Möglich, bei diversen Veranstaltern.

Es ist erlaubt, ohne Geldeinsatz Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, in Trainingskursen Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, im Familienkreis Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, als geschlossene Gruppe Poker zu spielen.

Wir werden in unserer nächsten Newsletter darüber informieren,
wo und wie ihr noch immer live Poker spielen könnt. Auf bald, Freunde!
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  #68  
Old 24.06.2010, 11:11
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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More news is coming out from the poker world and I get a news email from www.pokeracademy.ch every now and then.

It answers the questions "Where and how can you play legally?"

Legal Pokerspielen?
Möglich, bei diversen Veranstaltern.
Es ist erlaubt, ohne Geldeinsatz Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, in Trainingskursen Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, im Familienkreis Poker zu spielen.
Es ist erlaubt, als geschlossene Gruppe Poker zu spielen.
Wir werden in unserer nächsten Newsletter darüber informieren,
wo und wie ihr noch immer live Poker spielen könnt. Auf bald, Freunde!
TBH When I read this I get the impression that recruiting people on a public forum to play isn't totally legal.

I don't play so don't really care one way or the other.
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  #69  
Old 20.04.2011, 14:58
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

Another blow to the online poker community...

Fulltilt, Poker Stars and Absolute Poker domain names have been seized by the FBI pending an indictment in the states...

Anyway here is the news link [BBC NEWS] for more info...
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:14
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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Another blow to the online poker community...

Fulltilt, Poker Stars and Absolute Poker domain names have been seized by the FBI pending an indictment in the states...

Anyway here is the news link [BBC NEWS] for more info...
good, now people can get back to working real jobs and contributing to society instead of wasting their youth playing online poker.
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Old 20.04.2011, 15:27
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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good, now people can get back to working real jobs and contributing to society instead of wasting their youth playing online poker.

PS. this only applies to americans...
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  #72  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:28
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

For those that think you can't have skill in a game of luck, then try your hand (literally) against this:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/s...-scissors.html

Scissors, paper, rock. Post your score here if you dare!
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  #73  
Old 20.04.2011, 15:30
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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PS. this only applies to americans...
i hope the entire industry crumbles now that 50% of their user base is gone. we will free an entire generation of nordic youth from monitor tans and early onset carpal tunnel syndrome.
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  #74  
Old 20.04.2011, 16:20
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Re: POKER Banned By The Federal Court In Switzerland

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For those that think you can't have skill in a game of luck, then try your hand (literally) against this:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/s...-scissors.html

Scissors, paper, rock. Post your score here if you dare!

well after your challenge I had to try it :-p

well this is the result... (note it's 100-108-100 and not 10-10-10 as it would appear at first...)
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