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Old 06.06.2010, 14:49
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For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

Just noticed this article on swissinfo:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Sham_marriages_face_real_crackdown_.html?cid=90193 24


It looks like the Swiss are making it even harder for foreigners to come here.
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Old 06.06.2010, 15:11
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

I've no problem with cracking down on sham marriages, but "From January 1, 2011 someone wanting to get married in Switzerland will need a valid residence permit or visa." is cracking down on real marriages as well.

The Federal Migration Office investigates about 500 suspected sham marriages every year. Out of how many legitimate marriages each year involving non-residents, I wonder?

Swiss Government, on this matter. 0/10. Fail.
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Old 06.06.2010, 15:14
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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I've no problem with cracking down on sham marriages, but "From January 1, 2011 someone wanting to get married in Switzerland will need a valid residence permit or visa." is cracking down on real marriages as well.
I agree. This is where the problem lies -- they've made a blanket law instead of just relying on their interviewing process to weed out suspect marriages.
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Old 06.06.2010, 15:34
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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I agree. This is where the problem lies -- they've made a blanket law instead of just relying on their interviewing process to weed out suspect marriages.
Ah but, an Interview Process requires someone to make a decision, not a strong point over here. Much better to have a rule book to quote at Johnnie Foreigner.
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Old 06.06.2010, 16:06
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

I think most EU countries have similar legislation. Doesn't look to be something shocking
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Old 06.06.2010, 16:17
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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I think most EU countries have similar legislation. Doesn't look to be something shocking
There is always the possibility of marriage by proxy, admittedly not necessarily recognised everywhere and typically used by soldiers at the front to assure government benefits for their families: http://www.uniset.ca/other/art/32HarvLRev473.html (article by Prof. Lorenzen, 1932). Googling 'proxy marriage' turns up various commercial services.

Holders of passports from countries whose nationals are not typically involved in marriages of convenience have no trouble getting UK "visas for marriage" and I assume the same will be true of Switzerland/Schengen. This will be a hardship mostly for failed asylum seekers who cannot travel.

AFAIK blanket restrictions of this sort on marriage have not been tested under Art. 12 of the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Often, rather than risk a negative decision of the ECHR (and for EU member states the ECJ), governments capitulate in individual cases: http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...12-6-1996.html (Greek nationality law, former Art. 19 expatriation provision).
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Old 06.06.2010, 16:28
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

In which countries can you (legally) get married without a valid residence permit or visa? I think there are not that many.
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Old 06.06.2010, 16:30
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

There's always Vegas.
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Old 06.06.2010, 16:34
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

Andy02 is right. It is targeted at sans papiers who resort to the marriage route to obtain residence rights.

At the marriage office, it is not uncommon to have the alien's police barge in minutes before registration to verify papers of both parties. Happened to a student friend of mine from an African nation, who after being here for 2 years, finally got married on that Friday in full Swiss style to his Swiss girlfriend of equal time.

Another person I know of who is a failed asylum seeker had his marriage attempt foiled by the same guys at the 11th hour.
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Old 16.06.2010, 11:02
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

Well from my experience it seems that this legislation applies already.

When my husband and I were deciding weather to marry outside Switzerland or in Switzerland we got information from Swiss authorities and from my embassy that if we want to marry in Switzerland I need fiance visa to enter Switzerland, even if I don't need visa to enter Switzerland up to three months as a tourist.

Hearing this I wrote many massages in this forum because I was puzzled how many people actually get married in Switzerland after they enter in Switzerland as tourists who actually do not need tourist visa.

My conclusion is that it was hole in the law and that you can do it on your own, but you will never get that instruction from any authority, they will always tell you to contact your embassy to ask for fiance visa.

So it just seems they now put a patch on that hole in the law
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Old 16.06.2010, 11:30
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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"From January 1, 2011 someone wanting to get married in Switzerland will need a valid residence permit or visa."
Perfectly normal, and I assume the same in most countries. The person coming to Switzerland to get married will need at least a tourist visa to enter the country in order to get married. Or you marry in their country (assuming the Swissie can get a visa to go there).

I assume I've interpreted it correctly and that, until 2011, anyone can stroll up to the border with no visa but say "I'm coming to get married!" and be waved in. That sounds odd.
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Old 16.06.2010, 12:21
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

It is pretty normal, and really nothing new. When we were married in 2003, I arrived on a tourist visa. We filed the papers to get married, and when the approval came, also came an L visa as you couldn't be married on a tourist visa. My husband (well, fiancé at the time) did check this was OK with the office that approved marriage in town before I arrived. The embassy quietly acknowledged I could do it this way, but suggested I go through them.
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Old 16.06.2010, 12:43
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

There are a lot of sham marriages, especially with men who cannot be deported because they're married to a Swiss woman they're not living together with. Ask the Zürich police, many of the drug dealers they're arresting weekly have a permanent resident permit because they married after having been rejected for political asylum. Should have been implemented ages ago, well better late than never.
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Old 16.06.2010, 13:47
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

There are also genuine marriages for these people without papers. One case I know of was of a former resident in Zurich city ( a failed asylum seeker ).

He heard and left for Wil SG to seek out potential brides and found one many women to the extent he could pick and choose. He went with one - a nurse ( she was equally willing - no money was involved ) and now stays in her place ( a local lass - as genuine as they can be in SG ) - been there for over 16 months.

Attempted marriage locally but the local authorities insisted he return to Africa, which he can't. The Alien's police was informed as well.

So the couple crossed the border into Stuttgart and had their marriage solemnised and returned, and are now in the process of registering as a couple legally.
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Old 16.06.2010, 21:59
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

I'm about to marry my girlfriend in Switzerland - she is a Russian who is a LOT younger than I am.....I'm English on a C permit. She is resident here on her own permit until mid next year. (Shes also way too goodlooking and talented for me but thats another story!)

I'm interested to see if we will get the "sham marriage" check interview from the Swiss authorities because she will be entitled to a dependants permit after we marry, OR whether they won't care because I'm not swiss so she can't get a Swiss passport.

We shall see!
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Old 16.06.2010, 22:59
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

Now I get your nick ;)
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Old 16.06.2010, 23:02
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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Now I get your nick
The Caviar bit, you mean??
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Old 22.06.2010, 15:45
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

Wow I got lucky. Married my Swiss wife a couple weeks ago. When I went to the local office to register and apply for a b permit, the clerk told me I would be fined by immigration for not having an entry visa. I told her that as an American citizen I feel free to go anywhere without a visa. She said the fine might not be applied. I think she was just trying to be stern by force of habit.

Recently watched a movie called The "Schweizer Macher" which is all about the Swiss Immigration Police staking out and following Naturalization applicants to look for signs of failed or insincere "conformity." It was hilarious, and a must see for anyone coming to CH for an extended period. Although I've been told that the practices highlighted in the Comedy have changed considerably. Supposedly they won't stalk you anymore...
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Old 22.06.2010, 16:01
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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I'm about to marry my girlfriend in Switzerland - she is a Russian who is a LOT younger than I am.....I'm English on a C permit. She is resident here on her own permit until mid next year. (Shes also way too goodlooking and talented for me but thats another story!)

I'm interested to see if we will get the "sham marriage" check interview from the Swiss authorities because she will be entitled to a dependants permit after we marry, OR whether they won't care because I'm not swiss so she can't get a Swiss passport.

We shall see!
Ah, but you're not a Swiss citizen, so they won't really be interested. If you held a "Rote Pass", then they'd be all over you like a rash.
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Old 22.06.2010, 16:06
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Re: For those not in CH who want to marry a Swiss

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I told her that as an American citizen I feel free to go anywhere without a visa.
This is not quite correct. You are free to travel but as a tourist. It is different thing. Person who can enter as a tourist in Switzerland without visa still needs visa for family reunion.
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