 | | 
22.06.2007, 09:13
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
| | referendums and shopping
O.K. I've got a question about the swiss legal/government system.
I read somewhere that all it takes is 100,000 signatures for something to be submitted to referendum here.
If this is true, and the "no shopping on Sundays" is a law thing and not a custom thing,
And it is obvious (from observational experience among other places also here in teeny weeny middle of nowhere boring town Fribourg, for instance), that if shops are open during holidays or have extended hours by some fortuitious freak accident of design? nature? legal loopholes?, people will crowd the stores until the last minute before closing,
Then why hasn't the "no shopping on Sundays law" been repealed yet? Has it not been submitted to referendums? Or does it always get defeated once it does?
This has been one of the greatest Swiss mysteries to me since I arrived two months ago....
Someone please explain?
| 
22.06.2007, 09:24
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: ZH Oberland
Posts: 431
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 209 Times in 125 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
Well, us Swissies voted for extended opening hours back in 2002, it didn't include Sunday though.
According to below law (unfortunately in German), shops can be open from Monday till Saturday 6:00 to 22:00. It's hardly implemented to the brink, especially on Saturday
The kicker is the clause that the Gemeinde can decide on which hours apply. E.g. the Coop Pronto near Bahnhof Wiedikon is closed on Sunday, but the one in Kempten/Wetzikon is open on Sunday... oh, forgot, it's disguised as a petrol station http://www.rechtsbuch.tg.ch/pdf/500/554_11S.PDF | 
22.06.2007, 09:49
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
The 100'000 signatures rule is correct for nation-wide initiatives. However the opening hours are regulated in cantonal laws (and then sometimes implemented differently on a municipal level if allowed by the cantonal laws). Initiatives on the cantonal level need less signatures. These cantonal laws define the regular opening hours and the exceptions. For example in Marmoset's link to the law of canton Thurgau, it is written that pharmacies are exempt from the standard opening hours regulation, and food shops with less than a certain square footage, too.
Many Swiss are against longer opening hours and open shops on Sundays, mostly the leftist parties, the trade unions and the churches.
| 
22.06.2007, 09:54
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
Hmmm...if less support is needed at the cantonal level....methinks I've got an evil plan brewing then...
Can initiatives be started by anyone, or do you need to be a citizen? (I know as a non-citizen I couldn't vote on the initiative, but would proposing one and collecting the signatures be off-limits too?)
Last edited by blueshrimp; 22.06.2007 at 09:55.
Reason: smiley was wrong, wanted an evil smiley but it came out too benign.
| 
22.06.2007, 10:38
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stewdguard, Germany
Posts: 2,051
Groaned at 45 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 929 Times in 609 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | Well, us Swissies voted for extended opening hours back in 2002, it didn't include Sunday though.
According to below law (unfortunately in German), shops can be open from Monday till Saturday 6:00 to 22:00. It's hardly implemented to the brink, especially on Saturday 
The kicker is the clause that the Gemeinde can decide on which hours apply. E.g. the Coop Pronto near Bahnhof Wiedikon is closed on Sunday, but the one in Kempten/Wetzikon is open on Sunday... oh, forgot, it's disguised as a petrol station  http://www.rechtsbuch.tg.ch/pdf/500/554_11S.PDF | | | | | ... and some shops that are not cloaked as gas stations are open on Sundays as well, for example Zurich Kloten, Zurich HB, and Uster Bahnhof.
| 
22.06.2007, 10:39
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
I'm not sure but I think it's okay as long as you get the 6000 required signatures in 90 days (make that 7000 because some will not be valid). Regrettably I have to inform you that the people of Fribourg voted against more liberal opening hours in 2003 when they discarded the revised "Gesetz über die Ausübung des Handels" with 50.74% of the votes. The issue still gets political attention and you should carefully investigate the state of affairs before you form an initiative comitee. It's a lot of political work to convince 51% of the voters and much legwork to get 6000 signatures, good luck! | Quote: | |  | | | ... and some shops that are not cloaked as gas stations are open on Sundays as well, for example Zurich Kloten, Zurich HB, and Uster Bahnhof. | | | | | Some laws are more generous with shops at important public transportation nodes.
Last edited by Nathu; 22.06.2007 at 10:40.
Reason: Added quote
| 
22.06.2007, 11:04
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fribourg
Posts: 288
Groaned at 93 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 53 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | Regrettably I have to inform you that the people of Fribourg voted against more liberal opening hours in 2003 when they discarded the revised "Gesetz über die Ausübung des Handels" with 50.74% of the votes... It's a lot of political work to convince 51% of the voters and much legwork to get 6000 signatures, good luck!  | | | | |
Aaah, Nanthu, you do not think like an evil genius! After collecting the 6000 signatures (as you said), I only really need to convince 1.75% of the voters (the other 49.25% are already convinced, given the statistics you provided).
In a population of 30,000 voters, 1.75% of the voters is only.... 525 people.
That's even less than the number of signatures....
*insert evil smile for which I cannot find the icon for*
| 
22.06.2007, 11:30
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: about there
Posts: 2,738
Groaned at 26 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 1,259 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | Aaah, Nanthu, you do not think like an evil genius! After collecting the 6000 signatures (as you said), I only really need to convince 1.75% of the voters (the other 49.25% are already convinced, given the statistics you provided).
In a population of 30,000 voters, 1.75% of the voters is only.... 525 people.
That's even less than the number of signatures....
*insert evil smile for which I cannot find the icon for* | | | | | Shrimp, with all due respect, you need to get out more ..... | 
22.06.2007, 11:35
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
What about this instead of an smiley? Kittens are evil but still cute, so you might even consider it as a campaign poster.
"Iwanthascheezburgers... late and on Sundays!"
| 
22.06.2007, 11:38
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Currently in Africa
Posts: 412
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 64 Times in 44 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | Hmmm...if less support is needed at the cantonal level....methinks I've got an evil plan brewing then... ) | | | | | Please no , don’t continue with your evil plan, the thought of being dragged around the shops on a Sunday would give me sleepless Saturday nights.
| This user would like to thank Nickj for this useful post: | | 
22.06.2007, 17:03
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Blonay
Posts: 1,597
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 836 Times in 432 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | Please no , don’t continue with your evil plan, the thought of being dragged around the shops on a Sunday would give me sleepless Saturday nights. | | | | | An evil plan indeed ! It’s so nice to have the shops closed on Sunday. In the UK Sunday is fast becoming like every other day of the week. Once the shops open then there’s pressure on a lot of other people to work on a Sunday to keep the shops supplied and provide all the services they need and then people start demanding that other businesses should also open. Sunday is the one day when friends and family can be together. | 
22.06.2007, 17:05
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: -
Posts: 7,814
Groaned at 45 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
If you think about it, what's the difference between a nurse and a shop worker? Why can one work on Sunday and the other cannot? Consider also anti-social working hours like shifts - not everyone works 9-5 like many EF slackers
I would welcome Sunday opening. The rush to the store on a Saturday with the billions of others is no pleasure.
| 
22.06.2007, 17:12
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: formerly Zürich
Posts: 446
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 246 Times in 139 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
The rush in shops on the eve of a holiday is a huge pain...how many companies let staff off work early so they can go and buy food for the next 1-2 days when shops are shut? Fortunately I live in Zurich where the main station is always a last resort.
| 
22.06.2007, 17:20
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Currently in Africa
Posts: 412
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 64 Times in 44 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping | Quote: | |  | | | The rush in shops on the eve of a holiday is a huge pain...how many companies let staff off work early so they can go and buy food for the next 1-2 days when shops are shut? Fortunately I live in Zurich where the main station is always a last resort. | | | | | The rush to/in the shops on any day is a pain!
Nick
| 
22.06.2007, 17:34
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,087
Groaned at 344 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 11,570 Times in 3,990 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
Doubtless Sunday opening will arrive in Switzerland one day - and more small retailers will close down because they cannot afford/dont want to work 7 days a week.
But until then I am very happy to have a day with the shops closed...
| 
22.06.2007, 18:38
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK, formerly Basel
Posts: 3,364
Groaned at 97 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 3,093 Times in 1,341 Posts
| | Re: referendums and shopping
This has definitely been the topic of discussion here before.
Drives me batty, the artificial silence of Sundays.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:57. | |