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Old 10.09.2010, 10:51
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Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Just read the news more carefully and understood there is a certain concern from the authorities but should not be there some kind of protection in a legal way?

http://www.lematin.ch/actu/suisse/ab...x-aisha-320846


Is there any protection at all for wolves, bears and lynxes ?
Spain and Portugal are working together to reintroduce the Iberian lynx in the South, we regularly send lynxes with cubs from one country to another hoping that the little lynxes from captivity to the wild may survive and breed again with other individuals... we have been fighting to have free lynxes in our countries for more than 30 years, it is unthinkable that any hunter could kill one! Although there were many who hunted them in the past for personal glorification and humiliation and shame for the rest of the population, in our days this is illegal and no one dares to imagine it.
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Old 10.09.2010, 10:58
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Ok what do you want to say?

In the article, it says they will leave the linx alone. She has 3 months old babies and she wan her liberty.
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:08
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Sorry Nil i just got so irritated i did not read it until the end!my mistake and stupidity, I edited my initial post already.

They will leave it for three months and what kind of legal protection does this kind of wildlife has against hunters? In many cases the short answer has been killing a wild animal instead capturing it and sending it to National wildlife park for instance, why does it look like there is no protection at all for some species? Is there any protection at all?
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:15
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Basically, if you are a bear, a wolf or a baby hippo in this country, things could get ugly!
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:18
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

The key difference here is:

Bear: Can kill you and did kill plenty of farm animals

Wolves: Ditto

Lynx: Er... not, it will run away as soon as it spots you. And it will always spot you first. But local rabbits and birds are in danger.


I personally did not like the shooting of the other animals either, but can understand the reasoning behind it. You simply need a protected area large enough to support large predators like bears and this is simply not the case here.
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:31
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

That's the best part in Canada. We have so much space we can protect them all. And they are.

It is a bit scary when you go out of my dad's house and come face to face with a bear....

Last winter they didn't have enough food because of the weather so they were quite agressive.

My dad's labrador can't protect much, he's such a chicken!
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:32
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Thanks Treverus, but considering that wolves and bears will always attack other animals (wolves do not attack human beings if they are wild and raised apart from humans) and many are in danger of extinction, doesn't it make more sense capturing them alive and taking them where they can be free? I am sure there are enough wildlife Parks in other countries which border with Switzerland that would be more than happy to have more individuals!!!
In a conservation perspective killing wild animals makes no sense, in our country when a farm is attacked by a wolf the state gives a certain amount of money to the farmer, as simple as that, and we also try to reintroduce the species that the wolf needs to feed on - they usually only attack farms when their original preys are gone due to human activity and also hunters! We are the first responsible for lack of habitat and prey for these animals.
What is wrong here?
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:35
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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wolves do not attack human beings if they are wild and raised apart from humans
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_at...l_wolf_attacks
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:38
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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The key difference here is:

Bear: Can kill you and did kill plenty of farm animals
Bears are predominantly vegetarian actually.
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:41
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

Dear Gastro, if you read carefully the description of the wolf attacks from the list you posted,you will see that they are mainly made by individuals which were in contact with humans, they were not typical wild wolves, many fed themselves with human refuse. The wild wolf will not get close to humans in normal conditions in the wildlife.
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:46
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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Dear Gastro, if you read carefully the description of the wolf attacks from the list you posted,you will see that they are mainly made by individuals which were in contact with humans, they were not typical wild wolves, many fed themselves with human refuse. The wild wolf will not get close to humans in normal conditions in the wildlife.
It goes without saying that there has to be contact with humans before there's an attack. How could it be otherwise.

If wolves start feeding on refuse in a village, that's hardly stops them being wild and it's not attention welcomed by villagers.

Nevertheless, you said that wolves 'do not' attack humans in the wild. It's more accurate to say that attacks are rare (indeed the wiki article makes the point that wolves in the wild are generally timid towards humans).
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Old 10.09.2010, 11:53
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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Bears are predominantly vegetarian actually.
How about you discuss this with the bear instead of me?

As far as I remember were there several bears in Switzerland: Some were afraid of humans and lived as they should in the wilderness. One was more on the curious side and continuously walked into villages at night. The foresters tried to stop him by scaring him off with fireworks or later on rubber bullets. Onyl when he still continuously actively searched for human settlements decided the police that he was too much of a risk. I believe this decision is not entirely wrong - or how would you react if he finally met people and hurt them? The typical "why did the government not foresee this and did something"?

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Thanks Treverus, but considering that wolves and bears will always attack other animals (wolves do not attack human beings if they are wild and raised apart from humans) and many are in danger of extinction.
I am not sure where you grew up or which animals "near to extinction" you are talking about. The forests in my home area are so full of wild boars that there would be plenty of food for a huge group of wolves. And I am pretty sure that the same is true for deer in Switzerland. I hardly see wolves climb the peaks to go after Steinböcke, but even those are hunted every year. So in principle: The hunters would simply need to be willing to share the killing quota with the predators...
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Old 10.09.2010, 12:06
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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They will leave it for three months and what kind of legal protection does this kind of wildlife has against hunters?

Protected species such as the wolf and the lynx are indeed protected by law, poaching will be sanctionned by fines and/or up to one year of jail.

However, if for example a wolf kills more than 35 farm animals in 4 months or more than 25 in one month, the cantonal authority has the authority to lift the ban on killing wolves for that specific animal. In most cantons the killing will be carried out by the "Wildhüter" (park rangers), not by private hunters.

The problem with this procedure is, that the "subsidy-gobblers" (farmers) could protect their animals quite easily by electric fences and protective dogs (does not guarantee 0 animals killed, but helps a lot).

(BTW: I don't mind farmers who are innovative and open to changes, just the ones who will want more subsidies every time they face an obstacle).

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It goes without saying that there has to be contact with humans before there's an attack. How could it be otherwise.

If wolves start feeding on refuse in a village, that's hardly stops them being wild and it's not attention welcomed by villagers.

Nevertheless, you said that wolves 'do not' attack humans in the wild. It's more accurate to say that attacks are rare (indeed the wiki article makes the point that wolves in the wild are generally timid towards humans).
Plus, we are talking about italian wolfs here, which are generally smaller and shy'er than their more northern counterparts.

Last edited by SamWeiseVielleicht; 10.09.2010 at 12:21.
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Old 10.09.2010, 12:15
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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Plus, we are talking about italian wolfs here, which are generally smaller and shy'er than their more northern counterparts.
So in short: A bloody foreigner is eating our sheep!
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Old 10.09.2010, 12:20
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

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How about you discuss this with the bear instead of me?

As far as I remember were there several bears in Switzerland: Some were afraid of humans and lived as they should in the wilderness. One was more on the curious side and continuously walked into villages at night. The foresters tried to stop him by scaring him off with fireworks or later on rubber bullets. Onyl when he still continuously actively searched for human settlements decided the police that he was too much of a risk. I believe this decision is not entirely wrong - or how would you react if he finally met people and hurt them? The typical "why did the government not foresee this and did something"?
Urban roaming bears are a common problem in Canada, and equally where I come from. Yet interestingly enough they keep to trash scavenging instead of constantly mauling humans.

I believe in both countries there's yet to be a massive extermination campaign on the grounds that "they might someday attack somebody".
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Old 11.09.2010, 23:08
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

I am not sure where you grew up or which animals "near to extinction" you are talking about. The forests in my home area are so full of wild boars that there would be plenty of food for a huge group of wolves. And I am pretty sure that the same is true for deer in Switzerland. I hardly see wolves climb the peaks to go after Steinböcke, but even those are hunted every year. So in principle: The hunters would simply need to be willing to share the killing quota with the predators...[/QUOTE]

In my home country many species were killed by humans almost to extinction: the Iberian wolf has been almost extinct just has the Iberian Lynx, both suffered with habitat loss and shortage of prey, the huge amount of roads and highways built on their habitats did the rest.

Old stories about wolves eating people never helped us much ( little red hood was a real disaster for all the children always believed the wolf was an evil creature) and to reveal the truth there is not one single case were a human was killed in our country by a wolf...the opposite has you can imagine is quite different, hundreds of individuals were killed in the most horrible ways, if not more.

We have been doing as much as we can to bring them back and to recover the species, but in the case of the Iberian lynx the situation is really bad, the Iberian wolf is not much better, I'm afraid.



After reading what SamWeiseVielleicht wrote I felt less shocked but still feel like there was more to be done to protect the wolves that are still alive and came back to the Swiss forests:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57641A20090807

Should not be the Swiss public opinion be more aware of the richness of their own habitats, is this not really more important then the well being of the farmers?

I wish our Iberian lynx could come back to our hills with their cubs and stay forever safe from any hunters, traps or car injuries... that would mean that we as species would also have some future.
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Old 11.09.2010, 23:45
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Re: Aisha the lynx, are they going to kill her too?

IMHO the problem is that while the vast majority of the population is "pro-wolf", people let themselves be influenced too much by images of killed farm animals. So basically people want only the "nice" wolves.

The best attempt at an improved protection in my opinion is to continue and intensify the projects by the federal administration

(http://www.bafu.admin.ch/dokumentati...x.html?lang=de)

with the guardian dogs (Maremme abruzesse and other races), thus showing to the population and especially to the farmers that a coexistence is indeed possible.
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