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Old 27.03.2011, 05:30
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Was she eligible for 400 days? So they retroactively apply the new law?
400 days? Who needs 400 days to find a new job? Where I come from 6 months is generous and in some areas you get 3. 400 days seems like decadence.

I wonder would a reduction in jobless benefits in Switzerland make labor more mobile as in America or Canada. People in Switzerland do not like to move around much for work, but if they had no choice, I bet many would.

This goes to a theory I have that although their are labor shortages in some industries, such as I.T., it is made worse by the local attitude. There might be a job in Zug, and many uenmployed in St. Gallen (just an example based on no real data) but the average person in St. Gallen won't ever be moving to Zug (something I'm sure it is quite accurate), despite a job opening, and the fact it is about 2 : 2.5 hours away.
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Old 27.03.2011, 09:33
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

Hi,

It depends - in IT it can take a long time to find new work unless you know someone who happens to know of an opening and is able to recommend you.

I was freelance until end of 2004 - when my contract was not renewed after many extensions. I didn't claim dole as I continued to look for freelance work and my company had a fair bit built up. I deliberately took a couple of months off for personal reasons - which I will not divulge here - and wasn't until the July that I actually found something and that was from an old colleague. Anything else I applied for I got rejected pretty much right away as IT is very much a buyer's market these days.

I've known people arrive in CH as trailing spouses who have qualifications and experience coming out of their ears who have taken ages to find work - and not through any fault of their own. In the end, luck has a lot to do with it.

Cheers,
Nick

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400 days? Who needs 400 days to find a new job? Where I come from 6 months is generous and in some areas you get 3. 400 days seems like decadence.
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Old 27.03.2011, 15:58
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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400 days? Who needs 400 days to find a new job?
You are not obliged to take the whole 400 days. It's there if you need it. Not everyone works in IT.
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Old 27.03.2011, 16:41
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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400 days? Who needs 400 days to find a new job? Where I come from 6 months is generous and in some areas you get 3. 400 days seems like decadence.

I wonder would a reduction in jobless benefits in Switzerland make labor more mobile as in America or Canada. People in Switzerland do not like to move around much for work, but if they had no choice, I bet many would.

This goes to a theory I have that although their are labor shortages in some industries, such as I.T., it is made worse by the local attitude. There might be a job in Zug, and many uenmployed in St. Gallen (just an example based on no real data) but the average person in St. Gallen won't ever be moving to Zug (something I'm sure it is quite accurate), despite a job opening, and the fact it is about 2 : 2.5 hours away.
You may need a work visa, but you also need an understanding of the Swiss employment market and culture.
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  #45  
Old 28.03.2011, 00:08
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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You may need a work visa, but you also need an understanding of the Swiss employment market and culture.
My work visa is pending.

Yes, I know that things are "slow" compared to Anglo-Saxon countries, probably due to the fact that people need to give 3 months notice. Also the job market is not as flexible in that everything requires some "certification", so changing industries is not very easy (I would imagine, although I'm not sure unions are responsible for that, locking down labor markets insure higher wages). 400 days is over a year, that is a hell of a long time. Switzerland unemployment rate is not at all catastrophic (>5%?, I know it is hirer in the Romance speaking areas though). However saying I "need an understanding" and not giving an explanation does little really...definitely does not continue dialogue. Do you feel like sharing your godly knowledge of Switzerland with us ignorant newbies??? LOL
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  #46  
Old 28.03.2011, 00:11
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Hi,

It depends - in IT it can take a long time to find new work unless you know someone who happens to know of an opening and is able to recommend you.

I was freelance until end of 2004 - when my contract was not renewed after many extensions. I didn't claim dole as I continued to look for freelance work and my company had a fair bit built up. I deliberately took a couple of months off for personal reasons - which I will not divulge here - and wasn't until the July that I actually found something and that was from an old colleague. Anything else I applied for I got rejected pretty much right away as IT is very much a buyer's market these days.

I've known people arrive in CH as trailing spouses who have qualifications and experience coming out of their ears who have taken ages to find work - and not through any fault of their own. In the end, luck has a lot to do with it. [Addition to the quote, edited in by the poster, has been removed by Longbyt].
Cheers,
Nick
Nick:

Thanks for the explanation.

I work in IT, and I have found the job market to be quite good. I was there for 3 months looking for work, secured an opening, but am waiting for the grace of Go...I mean a "work visa" to be processed (if it is).

Two weeks after I got to Switzerland, in late December, I started applying for job, and was contacted quite a bit, the only thing that seemed to be stopping me was the work visa issue.

Then again, this depends on "what type of IT work" one does. I do database stuff...what are you or your friends into? That might explain a few things I suppose.

Last edited by Longbyt; 01.04.2011 at 10:30. Reason: Removed sentence added to nickatbasel's quote by poster
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Old 28.03.2011, 00:12
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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My work visa is pending.

Yes, I know that things are "slow" compared to Anglo-Saxon countries, probably due to the fact that people need to give 3 months notice, however saying I "need an understanding" and not giving an explanation does little really...so thanks for nothing.
I think others summed up most of it well.

Just step out of the every man for himself attitude of the US and into a society that doesn't want to let people fall through the cracks as easily, and then you can start to understand.
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  #48  
Old 28.03.2011, 00:20
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I think others summed up most of it well.

Just step out of the every man for himself attitude of the US and into a society that doesn't want to let people fall through the cracks as easily, and then you can start to understand.
Sigh, you know, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap...

Cut the nationalist stereotyping B.S. and step out of your holier than thou attitude for a minute and come down to earth and speak like a man? That might facilitate something useful.

My nationality is not important. Nor is yours, unless most Brits are pricks, and as far as I know, that is not the case.

I treat people as they come, I don't hold individuals out to stereotypes, I expect the same respect. That is not asking a lot.

I'm not complaining about the system, I'm trying to understand why it is necessary, that is completely different.
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Old 28.03.2011, 00:29
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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You are not obliged to take the whole 400 days. It's there if you need it. Not everyone works in IT.
I know, it just seems that is a very long time. As I pointed out a few minutes ago, in an earlier post, I can see some reason the job market is slower, but we are talking about a period of over a year.

It seems to me that unemployment benefits are necessary and legitimate, but also it seems that it makes the labor market more inefficient if you allow unemployment for too long, because it does not behoove people to really search hard for a job (some people anyway), it is easier to abuse that type of system.

The one I'm used to is probably too harsh, all things considered, even thought the labor market is far more flexible.

Then again if the labor market was more flexible you would not need to spend so much on unemployment...the things somewhat feed on each other.

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Old 28.03.2011, 00:48
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Sigh, you know, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap...
...
rudeness
...
rudeness
...
rudeness
...
Perhaps what goes around, comes around


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I'm not complaining about the system, I'm trying to understand why it is necessary, that is completely different.
Yes, you were, and, no, you weren't...



Executive Summary: You'll fit in just fine as a disgruntled expat here in Swiss.
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Old 28.03.2011, 00:54
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Perhaps what goes around, comes around




Yes, you were, and, no, you weren't...



Executive Summary: You'll fit in just fine as a disgruntled expat here in Swiss.
.
I'm not disgruntled. If I am that unhappy here, I will just go home. LOL I am not trying to move to Switzerland because my life sucked at home, my life was fine. I am moving for family reasons, but there is no sense being somewhere I don't like, i can just as easy leave. So far it is fine.

Questing things is how I understand them. That does not mean I agree or disagree. I reserve judgement. If the current system is valid and makes sense for Switzerland so be it, if it does not so be it. Apparently I don't participate in enough group think for some, nor hate my national origin enough. I guess questing anything is forbidden for fear of punishment by some keyboard warrior loser (not speaking to you, but in general).

As for the rest uhm...not really. I was not rude to start off. I don't know how you were raised but I show respect until I am shown disrespect, then I no longer see a need to be respectful. I do not bow down as someone disrespect me and turn the other cheek. Nor do I bend over and say "thank you sir may I have another".

I am very respectful to those who show me respect.
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  #52  
Old 28.03.2011, 00:56
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I know, it just seems that is a very long time. As I pointed out a few minutes ago, in an earlier post, I can see some reason the job market is slower, but we are talking about a period of over a year.

It seems to me that unemployment benefits are necessary and legitimate, but also it seems that it makes the labor market more inefficient if you allow unemployment for too long, because it does not behoove people to really search hard for a job (some people anyway), it is easier to abuse that type of system.

The one I'm used to is probably too harsh, all things considered, even thought the labor market is far more flexible.
Why would it be easier to abuse the Swiss system?

You don't just sit on your butt collecting unemployment. You have to be actively looking for a job and provide proof of such. In fact the unemployment office can find a job for you and they can send you to classes for re-training. You will lose your benefits and/or get penalized monetarily if you don't take a job when offered to you or if you decide to skip out on classes that you were sent to.

I was on Swiss unemployment. It was like a full time job! lol.

The fact is you are looking at the system from an American point of view, whether or not you like it mentioned. It's what you know and how you see the world (for now. )

The America attitude tends to be that people will by default abuse the system and it's their own fault if they fall on hard times. The Swiss point of view is that it's there if and when you need it. I for one prefer the Swiss system.
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  #53  
Old 28.03.2011, 01:14
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Why would it be easier to abuse the Swiss system?

You don't just sit on your butt collecting unemployment. You have to be actively looking for a job and provide proof of such. In fact the unemployment office can find a job for you and they can send you to classes for re-training. You will lose your benefits and/or get penalized monetarily if you don't take a job when offered to you or if you decide to skip out on classes that you were sent to.

I was on Swiss unemployment. It was like a full time job! lol.

The fact is you are looking at the system from an American point of view, whether or not you like it mentioned. It's what you know and how you see the world (for now. )

The America attitude tends to be that people will by default abuse the system and it's their own fault if they fall on hard times. The Swiss point of view is that it's there if and when you need it. I for one prefer the Swiss system.
I will get to your question...


First, lets not stereotype. I also don't want to dwell on the "U.S. attitude", because the reality is no such thing exists. America is a nation of 300 million people and politically split down the middle, with our liberals being moderates in Switzerland and our conservatives...well they would be close to fascist in Switzerland. LOL What you described, as far as what you have to do, to maintain unemployment, is the same in the States. It does vary by area though (as in Switzerland). You put 10 Americans in a room, you will likely get 10 different opinion about unemployment and a serious of argument, we are not a homogenous people, not even within ethnicity/race...

I do know Swiss people, since my fiancee is Swiss, I know all her friends. One of her friend's boyfriends had sat on unemployment for 6 months. He told me that "there are no good jobs now..." and that "he is waiting till the market improves". He then smokes marijuana a good part of everyday, which he buys from some "refugee" at the Bahnhof... That is a "St. Gallen Story" and I don't know anyone else unemployed. While on unemployment he decided to travel to Spain, Hawaii, and Thailand as well. Okay, that was a bit shocking to me, as in unbelievable.

I don't even know how hard this guy is looking for work or if people are really checking up on him, but he didn't seem to hard pressed to find a job to me. Then again, he is also not ethnically Swiss (but a C permit holder, born here and of European ancestry, but that is another issue). My point is people abuse systems everywhere.

And no I don't think most Swiss people abuse the system (any system), it is not the average person's fault. If takes a possible 400 days to find a job, that speaks of some structural problems in the economy, it is more than a recession.

So to answer your initial question, it is not necessarily "easier to abuse" but you might be able to "abuse it" longer. A person can easily apply to a few jobs a week, not take them seriously, purposely screw up at interviews, etc. It may not be they don't want to work, it may be they just don't want to work those jobs. Currently my fiancee's friend's boyfriend is working, he found a job he wanted at the airport in Zurich.

Thank you for the information though, you are right, the way I look at things is different, but I don't consider that bad. In fact, I'm quite open to see how other people see things (unlike some of us around here).
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Old 28.03.2011, 01:40
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

Sure all systems can and are probably are abused to some degree. I don't think the Swiss system is more or less abused than any other.

Not that a sample size of 1 is proof of anything, but even in your example, your fiancee's friend's boyfriend wasn't on unemployment for 400 days was he?
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Old 28.03.2011, 08:24
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Sigh, you know, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap...

Cut the nationalist stereotyping B.S. and step out of your holier than thou attitude for a minute and come down to earth and speak like a man? That might facilitate something useful.

My nationality is not important. Nor is yours, unless most Brits are pricks, and as far as I know, that is not the case.

I treat people as they come, I don't hold individuals out to stereotypes, I expect the same respect. That is not asking a lot.

I'm not complaining about the system, I'm trying to understand why it is necessary, that is completely different.
Wow, I'm British? News to me. I didn't know residing in a country made you a citizen.

I wasn't stereotyping, I was speaking from personal experience of nearly 40 years living in the US.
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Old 28.03.2011, 09:11
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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... 400 days is over a year, that is a hell of a long time. Switzerland unemployment rate is not at all catastrophic (>5%?, I know it is hirer (higher) in the Romance speaking areas though).

Blah, blah, blah...

If takes a possible 400 days to find a job, that speaks of some structural problems in the economy, it is more than a recession.
Maybe Swizerland is getting something right though with those 400 day's and 5% unemployment rate. I dunno, I'm not that bright but that percentage is not too far off the rate of those that cannot be employed.

You sound very young ANWV (first time living out of the country?), I think if you do get that visa you will be much better off when get fired here than in the oft spoken of US of A.

Hey, I remember where zero unemployment existed; ahhhh memories of the workers paradise and that big old curtain.

(I iz U.S.)
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Old 28.03.2011, 09:23
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Sigh, you know, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap...

Cut the nationalist stereotyping B.S. and step out of your holier than thou attitude for a minute and come down to earth and speak like a man? That might facilitate something useful.

My nationality is not important. Nor is yours, unless most Brits are pricks, and as far as I know, that is not the case.

I treat people as they come, I don't hold individuals out to stereotypes, I expect the same respect. That is not asking a lot.

I'm not complaining about the system, I'm trying to understand why it is necessary, that is completely different.

so much irony I don't know where to start.
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Old 28.03.2011, 11:50
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Wow, I'm British? News to me. I didn't know residing in a country made you a citizen.

I wasn't stereotyping, I was speaking from personal experience of nearly 40 years living in the US.
Apparently ANWV wants to hear you "speak like a man", too, evilshell ... this thread is getting kinky.

It seems to me that the only poster on this thread reinforcing negative national stereotypes is ... AmericanNeedsWorkVisa.
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Old 28.03.2011, 11:52
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Sigh, you know, I'm getting sick and tired of this crap...

Cut the nationalist stereotyping B.S. and step out of your holier than thou attitude for a minute and come down to earth and speak like a man? That might facilitate something useful.

My nationality is not important. Nor is yours, unless most Brits are pricks, and as far as I know, that is not the case.

I treat people as they come, I don't hold individuals out to stereotypes, I expect the same respect. That is not asking a lot.

I'm not complaining about the system, I'm trying to understand why it is necessary, that is completely different.
don't take it personally. the forum is filled with haters and having "american" in your name effectively paints a red crosshair on your chest. if it was anything different you would get 80% less crap, guaranteed.
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Old 28.03.2011, 12:42
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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don't take it personally. the forum is filled with haters and having "american" in your name effectively paints a red crosshair on your chest. if it was anything different you would get 80% less crap, guaranteed.

filled with haters eh? isn't he arguing with fellow countrymen (and women)

I think posting rubbish paints a crosshair more then his nationality
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