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  #61  
Old 28.03.2011, 14:07
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Maybe Swizerland is getting something right though with those 400 day's and 5% unemployment rate. I dunno, I'm not that bright but that percentage is not too far off the rate of those that cannot be employed.

You sound very young ANWV (first time living out of the country?), I think if you do get that visa you will be much better off when get fired here than in the oft spoken of US of A.

Hey, I remember where zero unemployment existed; ahhhh memories of the workers paradise and that big old curtain.

(I iz U.S.)
I don't know how you define "young", but yeah, I was not working during the Cold War, I was in school through the tail-end. I have lived in Japan for a year before, working. I've traveled to a lot of places, far more than in Asian than in Europe. Japan's unemployment rate is about the same as Switzerland (slightly higher I believe, maybe 5%), but they don't have over 1 year unemployment benefits. Their market is probably as flexible or less so. I think the difference is that it is expected that people's family will help support them (obviously different culture).

I've also lived in China (Shanghai) for about 6 months on contract.

I don't know how Switzerland tracks unemployment, but many countries track voluntary unemployment. That means if someone is switching jobs in a given month, they are unemployment.

In many nations people switch jobs more than in Switzerland, so it makes the stats look similar, when they are not.

Your Americans, so you know the work situation is more fluid, people "job-hop" all the time, this makes unemployment higher, for example, which is why full unemployment in America is around 4%, because at any time you have that many people actively leaving jobs, searching for jobs, waiting to start jobs, etc.

Another thing I can think of is, some countries count unemployed based on people who are looking for work in a given month. Some count the total number of able bodied people (I guess by estimate) who have given up looking for work. How they separate this from people who don't want to work, I'm not sure, exactly, or don't remember, it has been some years.

Last edited by AmericanGotWorkVisa; 28.03.2011 at 14:21.
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  #62  
Old 28.03.2011, 14:17
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Young...
Unemployment...
Young as you have less than 400days of work experience in any country (I am ot for once!).

Here ya go kitten, knock yourself out! And keep posting, I actually enjoy reading your theories.

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...inleitung.html
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  #63  
Old 28.03.2011, 14:24
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Young as you have less than 400days of work experience in any country (I am ot for once!).

Here ya go kitten, knock yourself out! And keep posting, I actually enjoy reading your theories.

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...inleitung.html


Nah, I wish I was that young, I have about 8 years full-time work experience in 3 countries, and inside America (3 states). I came to Switzerland to look for a job, I have found one (maybe) but I'm waiting on the work visa to be processed (if approved). I don't think they will be handing out any visa to someone with so little work experience (<400 days). Well, unless we are talking about adult entertainment, they get those 'artist" visas or something like that...
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  #64  
Old 01.04.2011, 09:18
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/sto...ggeld-14609450

So, I do not understand...
Some people that is NOW unemployed will be kick out to the social security?
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  #65  
Old 01.04.2011, 10:14
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

AmericanNeedsWorkVisa: You are entitled to your opinions. However I do object most strongly when somebody quotes my post and adds text to the quotation that I never wrote in my post. Therefore you got a groan from me.

Please try to observe some basic etiquette when posting on this forum.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #66  
Old 01.04.2011, 10:21
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/sto...ggeld-14609450

So, I do not understand...
Some people that is NOW unemployed will be kick out to the social security?
Well, the unemployment period is limited. So once your entitlement to benefits runs to an end, unless you found a new job, you will be considered "ausgesteuert"(not sure how to translate this properly?!). Nothing new, only that it kicks in sooner now with the new law.
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  #67  
Old 01.04.2011, 10:37
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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AmericanNeedsWorkVisa: You are entitled to your opinions. However I do object most strongly when somebody quotes my post and adds text to the quotation that I never wrote in my post. Therefore you got a groan from me.

Please try to observe some basic etiquette when posting on this forum.

Cheers,
Nick
I, too, object most strongly to this method of giving weight to one's own arguments. It is bad enough to 'misinterpret' something someone else has written but a deliberate editing of a text written by another member, adding another sentence, is overstepping the line by far.
I have removed the offending sentence from the quote.

Normally, Mods do not edit member's posts, but this was an addition to a quote and no indication was given that it was not originally written by Nick.
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  #68  
Old 01.04.2011, 11:35
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

There seems to be an argument here that the Swiss system is too generous and therefore it's bound to be abused.

This seems a bit wrong-headed for two reasons. The first is that you shouldn't really worry about abuse . . . it's difficult to get facts on this. You should just worry about whether the system can be successfully funded. Switzerland still thinks it can afford this safety net. Unemployment insurance here is mandatory and not quite the same thing as social security. So why rail against the system based on anecdotal evidence.

Let's look at some comparable unemployments rates:

UK 8.9%
Germany 7.1%
Italy 8.6%
France 9.6%
(Euro are average is 9.9%)

Switzerland: 3.4%

Such a low rate of unemployment does not suggest that people are abusing the system and sitting out the recession. I'm sure that some individuals are doing this, but it is not a wide scale phenomenon nor a problem.

Sometimes when people lose a job it can be a hard knock and it can take some time to get on your feet again. Sometimes you may find you need to re-skill. 400 days is a good safety net.
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  #69  
Old 01.04.2011, 11:51
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Let's look at some comparable unemployments rates:

UK 8.9%
Germany 7.1%
Italy 8.6%
France 9.6%
(Euro are average is 9.9%)

Switzerland: 3.4%
Spain >20%
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  #70  
Old 01.04.2011, 12:29
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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There seems to be an argument here that the Swiss system is too generous and therefore it's bound to be abused.

This seems a bit wrong-headed for two reasons. The first is that you shouldn't really worry about abuse . . . it's difficult to get facts on this. You should just worry about whether the system can be successfully funded. Switzerland still thinks it can afford this safety net. Unemployment insurance here is mandatory and not quite the same thing as social security. So why rail against the system based on anecdotal evidence.

Let's look at some comparable unemployments rates:

UK 8.9%
Germany 7.1%
Italy 8.6%
France 9.6%
(Euro are average is 9.9%)

Switzerland: 3.4%

Such a low rate of unemployment does not suggest that people are abusing the system and sitting out the recession. I'm sure that some individuals are doing this, but it is not a wide scale phenomenon nor a problem.

Sometimes when people lose a job it can be a hard knock and it can take some time to get on your feet again. Sometimes you may find you need to re-skill. 400 days is a good safety net.
I agree that 400 days may be required for re-training but the question of abuse has to be considered. The fact that it is low (3.4%) says nothing because if it was only 1.7% before the 'crisis' then unemployment has doubled. So, even at such a low rate abuse can move the figures quite dramatically.

Your other point about it being affordable is key. It is currently not affordable by several billion swiss francs per year, hence the new rules.
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  #71  
Old 01.04.2011, 12:36
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I agree that 400 days may be required for re-training but the question of abuse has to be considered. The fact that it is low (3.4%) says nothing because if it was only 1.7% before the 'crisis' then unemployment has doubled. So, even at such a low rate abuse can move the figures quite dramatically.

Your other point about it being affordable is key. It is currently not affordable by several billion swiss francs per year, hence the new rules.
Are you saying that if unemployment was at 1.7% then you'd be concerned about abuse? That sounds like a figure close to the theoretical limit for full unemployment, i.e. where it's just structural, i.e. people moving between jobs

Of course we shouldn't condone abuse . . . but we shouldn't imagine it's more of a problem than it is. It seems like it's at the level where it would cost more to investigate more deeply than it would save.
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  #72  
Old 01.04.2011, 12:46
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

I agree that the abuse is probably small and would cost more to investigate than it warrants, but the problem is if the small amount of abuse forces the system to be changed because it becomes uneconomical.

I think the current system is great because it gives you the time you need to re-group, re-train (if required) whilst not having to change your lifestyle dramatically, which is great for family stability at a very difficult time. (with a suitably helpful RAV advisor of course -not everybody is allowed the time)
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  #73  
Old 06.07.2011, 12:17
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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[...]

3. Entitlement i.e how many days unemployment benefit a peron will receive

I) Having contributions of minimum 12 months out of the last 24 months people will receive a MAXIMUM 260 days benefit (working days) approx 11months avrg 23 working days per month.
II) Having contributions of minimum 18 months out of the last 24 months people will receive a MAXIMUM 400 days benefit approx 18 months benefit.
[...]
are you sure about that? yesterday i was told that people without children can have maximum of 200 days (on the information meeting).

there was a table , and there was only one entry for people aged below 25 OR without children, with min. contribution to the system of 12 to 18 months out of last 24 months and receving 200 days benefit (not even 260)

rest was about people with children or people aged 60/61 or more

but according to what you wrote, it should be 400 days for people who contributed for 18 months, so how is it?
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  #74  
Old 06.07.2011, 13:12
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

The intro days are not always 100% accurate!
Over 25 years of age 400 days is possible, it's all here

http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/0038..._JjKbNoKSn6A--

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are you sure about that? yesterday i was told that people without children can have maximum of 200 days (on the information meeting).

there was a table , and there was only one entry for people aged below 25 OR without children, with min. contribution to the system of 12 to 18 months out of last 24 months and receving 200 days benefit (not even 260)

rest was about people with children or people aged 60/61 or more

but according to what you wrote, it should be 400 days for people who contributed for 18 months, so how is it?
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