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Old 27.09.2010, 01:21
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Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

I just saw this article on swissinfo.ch. The swiss approved a reform of the unemployment benefits scheme. This now means that we will be paying 0.1% more tax and in certain cases our unemployment benefits will be reduced.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...l?cid=28410402
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Old 27.09.2010, 02:38
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I just saw this article on swissinfo.ch. The swiss approved a reform of the unemployment benefits scheme. This now means that we will be paying 0.1% more tax and in certain cases our unemployment benefits will be reduced.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics...l?cid=28410402
I voted against that "reform" even if agreeing that the old system had become too expensive. I expected a Yes and so wanted to reduce the Yes figure by at least one single vote
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Old 27.09.2010, 10:57
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

how do you explain the romand/german difference here?
Even in the bilingue canton Fribourg, the split is very clear between the german part that voted for the reform whereas the french speaking part refused it.
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Old 27.09.2010, 11:04
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

Influence of all those talks of (necessary) reform in Paris, and the accompanying strikes?

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how do you explain the romand/german difference here?
Even in the bilingue canton Fribourg, the split is very clear between the german part that voted for the reform whereas the french speaking part refused it.
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Old 27.09.2010, 11:10
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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how do you explain the romand/german difference here?
Even in the bilingue canton Fribourg, the split is very clear between the german part that voted for the reform whereas the french speaking part refused it.
Degree of workshyness?
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Old 27.09.2010, 11:15
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

I have a theory and would be happy to have some romand and german-swiss reaction:
for the romand it's not a "shame" to get unemployment benefit and therefore would wait before looking for another job, whereas the swiss-german it's a "shame" to receive it and they would do everything to get another job asap.

I am not sure the word "shame" is the right one, but I've seen/heard different attitude towards unemployment (wait and see vs. get out of it asap) among the romands and german-swiss.
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Old 27.09.2010, 11:58
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

www.letemps.ch has a tone of articles today 27.9 in French to the resurgence of the Roestigraben. Interestingly, they made me think of some aspects of the debate about Belgian partition between FR speaking and FL speaking Belgium.

For some is is profiteurs vs hard workers. I am sure it is not that simple, for instance : old industries vs modern services, catholics and protestants, psyche etc etc combined.

At the end of the day, I don't vote and I will pay more social deductions for the common good, that s the result of this we votation for me. I just have to hope the CHF7Bns are paid back quickly, as this is when the 1% surtax will go....
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Old 27.09.2010, 11:58
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

The difference in voting on the question is not "work-shyness" on the part of Swiss Romands. The latter belief tends towards simplistic prejudice. There are several reasons: Swiss Romand was hit harder by the recent crisis, and unemployment levels are still higher. Also, the Swiss-Germans tend to favour the apprentice system of insertion into employment rather than academic education, and the former improves the chances of a smoother entry into employment for the young.

Even in parts of Swiss Romand the vote was not always against the change. Examination of the vote of several communes (including mine) around Nyon, shows a majority voted in favour.
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Old 27.09.2010, 12:32
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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how do you explain the romand/german difference here?
Even in the bilingue canton Fribourg, the split is very clear between the german part that voted for the reform whereas the french speaking part refused it.

I think the reason of the difference between "German Switzerland" and "Latin Switzerland" is the unemployment numbers, which is much higher in the French and Italian part, mainly because there are much more foreigners crossing the border and coming to work everyday in the French/Italian part. Canton Geneva and Canton Ticino are the cantons with the most so called "frontalieri"(foreigner workers living across the border but working in CH), more than any other canton.

The reason of this difference is due to the salary gap there is between Switzerland and France and Italy, which is much higher than the salary gap with Germany, hence why we have more French and Italian workforce.

Hence, the "Latin Switzerland" is much more affected by this measure than the German Cantons, which tend to have a much lesser percentage of unemployment.

I for one, voted NO too, I was really hoping it wouldn't be accepted, since I'm under 25 and we, the young ones, among with the ones over 55, are gonna be the most affected by this change.


Oh well..
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Old 27.09.2010, 12:35
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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The difference in voting on the question is not "work-shyness" on the part of Swiss Romands.
I was just ironically paraphrasing Weber and Tawney.
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Old 27.09.2010, 12:42
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I think the reason of the difference between "German Switzerland" and "Latin Switzerland" is the unemployment numbers, which is much higher in the French and Italian part, mainly because there are much more foreigners crossing the border and coming to work everyday in the French/Italian part (...)

Oh well..
But how you explain why in the same canton like Fribourg, having same economical conditions for both communities, the german and french part have different voting?
It's true that the average unemployment rate is higher among the french speaking. But since it's the same canton, I don't think there are different economical environment.
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Old 27.09.2010, 20:57
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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how do you explain the romand/german difference here?
Even in the bilingue canton Fribourg, the split is very clear between the german part that voted for the reform whereas the french speaking part refused it.
easy, the French speaking part, based on French culture, believes in the "state" as a blessing while the German speaking part believes in the "state" as a necessary evil. Beside the point that the Romandie is generally farther left. It however is the other way round in regard to public transport where German speaking Switzerland is ready to support public transport much more than the Romandie.
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:09
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I think the reason of the difference between "German Switzerland" and "Latin Switzerland" is the unemployment numbers, which is much higher in the French and Italian part, mainly because there are much more foreigners crossing the border and coming to work everyday in the French/Italian part. Canton Geneva and Canton Ticino are the cantons with the most so called "frontalieri"(foreigner workers living across the border but working in CH), more than any other canton.

The reason of this difference is due to the salary gap there is between Switzerland and France and Italy, which is much higher than the salary gap with Germany, hence why we have more French and Italian workforce.

Hence, the "Latin Switzerland" is much more affected by this measure than the German Cantons, which tend to have a much lesser percentage of unemployment.

I for one, voted NO too, I was really hoping it wouldn't be accepted, since I'm under 25 and we, the young ones, among with the ones over 55, are gonna be the most affected by this change.


Oh well..
A) The German speaking border cantons have as many "frontalieri" (from Germany and Ausria) as the French speaking border cantons. And to claim that they cause joblessness is not convincing
B) The Ticino had its severe joblessness problem throughout the 20th Century. The problem is geography. For CH-mainland it is south of the San Gottardo and for central Lombardy it was and is "out-of-centre"
C) The "economic power-houses" in CH are Zürich and Basel with an intra-Swiss radius of some 50 kilometers
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:10
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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I was just ironically paraphrasing Weber and Tawney.
Of course I should have remembered that in Switzerland, German-speaking doesn't equal Protestant and French-speaking doesn't equal Catholic.
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:13
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

The divide is the cities vs the rural cantons (or cantons with a lot of rural areas that carry the vote)
The cities of Zurich, Basel, Geneva and Lausanne often vote the same way.
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:17
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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But how you explain why in the same canton like Fribourg, having same economical conditions for both communities, the german and french part have different voting?
It's true that the average unemployment rate is higher among the french speaking. But since it's the same canton, I don't think there are different economical environment.
Yes and No. In fact there is a different economic environment as Northern Freiburg with places like Murten, Kerzers, Düdingen and Flamatt is in economic terms part of the Bern region.

Add to this the fact that the share of state (both union and cantons) officials among the population is significantly higher in the Romandie than in German speaking Switzerland (with just 20% of the population, almost 30% of the union-officials are Romands), you get the picture.
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:21
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

I think the local newspapers and television have an enormous effect. The Romands are convinced they are the poorer cousin and believe the east is always getting them to pay more. The fact is the salaries in Zurich and Basel are much higher than in the west and south, and an increase in taxation is not felt that much when you earn over 60,000 per year. Yes a satisfactory minimum salary in the west is about 5,000 per month! But then everything else is much nicer, so we put up with the hardships.
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:22
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

Regardless of how each region voted. When are these reforms scheduled to take place?
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Old 27.09.2010, 21:26
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

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Regardless of how each region voted. When are these reforms scheduled to take place?
1st january 2011

2.2% (1.1% employer, 1.1% employee) for salaries up to 126'000 chf
you'll be taxed 1% (0.5% employer, 0.5% employee) for the part more than 126'000/year
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Old 27.09.2010, 22:53
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Re: Swiss approve the reform of the jobless benefit scheme.

A debt of 7 billion CHF burdens the swiss unemployment insurance.

The Romandie and Ticino, with the highest unemployment rate in CH, and as such depending on a stable and strong insurance, yet voted against the reform to raise additional revenue to the insurance...
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