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  #41  
Old 14.11.2010, 12:51
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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Hey MathNut, which of us did he mean?
The one who's refusing to make me a cup of tea.
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  #42  
Old 14.11.2010, 12:52
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

Can't be me, I made him a cup of tea only yesterday morning.

(Do you want to smite him for his insolence or shall I? )
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Old 14.11.2010, 12:59
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

the funny thing about all this is that even though the guy obviously had some custody issues himself, generally a father in feminist Sweden would have significantly better chances to have access to his children after the divorce than in Switzerland. It's very common to keep joint custody and shared parenting arrangements after the divorce. And out of kids living with single parents in Sweden, more than 20% are living with single dads - I don't have the numbers about CH but in more 'traditional' countries, this number is usually less than 1%.

So really I don't understand what exactly he wants. To 'return things to normal'? the normal, I assume, being that the mother takes care of home and kids and the father works - and he really thinks that in case of divorce, courts would be more willing to favour the full-time working father over full-time stay at home mother?
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  #44  
Old 14.11.2010, 13:35
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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Out of the six people I report to for different aspects of my work, four are women, inkl the big boss. Even in your thinking, there must be room for nuances.
Do you happen to work in education or some other female domain?
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  #45  
Old 14.11.2010, 13:38
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

At least, you admit that there ARE female domains. If you speak about specific domains that can be defined as male domains, please put this piece of information in your message. Then it makes a lot of sense to talk about glass sealing. Otherwise, generalizations just stay what they are: generalizations.

Another food for thoughts: What about those who say that there are just not that many female candidates for responsibility posts in the service industry, so that it is by best will not possible to have equal numbers. The part of responsability the women have in that matter is not zero: if there are no or few women to candidate, no wonder the result is male domination after the last round of interview. That comes ON TOP OF glass sealing, as I do not denie its existance in some sectors. I am not blind.

EDIT: it is still really bad thinking to oppose father's rights and feminism. No doubts about it.
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Old 14.11.2010, 13:59
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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At least, you admit that there ARE female domains.
Of course there are.

Coincidentally, they also happen to be the low paid ones - compared to what you would get paid in male domains with an equal level of education.


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If you speak about specific domains that can be defined as male domains, please put this piece of information in your message.
E.g. careers in the medical field - despite the higher percentage of female medical students, how many will become a medical superintendent (Chefarzt) or a PD?
Banking, government, law etc.
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  #47  
Old 14.11.2010, 14:09
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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But why do you say "mostly male judges"? If there is one place in society where women are well represented in northern European countries, that's in tribunals. Your experience and your background obviously make you say that, perhaps it is perfectly true in the countries you know, but I can not agree for northern european courts. Tribunals are not male dominated anymore, and familly courts have far enough female judges to make your statement in the coutries I know and with my background invalid. But I am aware of the fact that the picture we have of the matter will relate to one's background, so it is a matter of beliefs as much as of experience.
Well, that's excellent news! I try not to make up my mind based on "beliefs". But it's true that ones experience shapes our understanding of the world.

I'm happy to be proven wrong on this. I found that in Eastern Europe & Southern Europe have very high % of women judges with Northern Europe training behind, with UK and Ireland in the 20s% Germany low 30s%. Switzerland is not listed. This is from 2006. I would be nice to see news statistics.

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/Dialog/Wee...weekly_285.gif

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Out of the six people I report to for different aspects of my work, four are women, inkl the big boss. Even in your thinking, there must be room for nuances.
Great. Of course there is room for "nuances" (although I'm not sure what you mean by that).

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the funny thing about all this is that even though the guy obviously had some custody issues himself, generally a father in feminist Sweden would have significantly better chances to have access to his children after the divorce than in Switzerland. It's very common to keep joint custody and shared parenting arrangements after the divorce. And out of kids living with single parents in Sweden, more than 20% are living with single dads - I don't have the numbers about CH but in more 'traditional' countries, this number is usually less than 1%.

So really I don't understand what exactly he wants. To 'return things to normal'? the normal, I assume, being that the mother takes care of home and kids and the father works - and he really thinks that in case of divorce, courts would be more willing to favour the full-time working father over full-time stay at home mother?
Thank you Ulla! This is exactly my point which you've made much better than I could have.
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Old 14.11.2010, 14:17
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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Of course there are.

Coincidentally, they also happen to be the low paid ones - compared to what you would get paid in male domains with an equal level of education.

.
But male in female domains are paid the same as females. No unequality there.

Talk to the banks and the industry, and I will be applauding you and send you flowers for your wise words.
And don't forget to encourage your female friends to send their CVs for high shot jobs. Recruters can only take what they get. Once that is secured, then yes, I sing with you the complaint of the glass sealing and unequality blues. I saw examples of it in an English bank in Geneva that I can not name here. I also saw a male glass sealing in education in Scandinavia, where female recruters were looking for females even if there was already a large majority of females in the team. But MEA CULPA, this experience is widely irrelevant when discussing Switzerland. I admit.

As long as we are able to keep in mind that the question is asked differently depending of the domain one thinks about, I am happy with not only your messages but the others as well.
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  #49  
Old 14.11.2010, 14:31
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

No matter what field, in the area of management, women can and do outperform men. They have a natural skill in the use of soft power, and when required, can be the most terrifying in their use of hard power. In my experience, they can get more things done than men. I work in an industry that is male doinated, but at the upper levels of corporate management, there are some very effective female managers. I think we are seeing this more and more of this even here in Switzerland.

Case in point, Switzerland's Bundesrat is now predominantly female.

A piece of advise for those working with women executive managers, never cross them.
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Old 14.11.2010, 14:33
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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A piece of advise for those working with women executive managers, never cross them.
I'll second that.
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  #51  
Old 14.11.2010, 14:34
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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A piece of advise for those working with women executive managers, never cross them.
No doubt this is a wise advise. However...
A manager that can not stand opposition is in my eyes not that good a manager in the first place. Male or female.
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  #52  
Old 14.11.2010, 15:27
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

[QUOTE=Phos;1012210]
Case in point, Switzerland's Bundesrat is now predominantly female.

[QUOTE]

And on top of it they all Look better then Margaret Thacher Ignore the "on top of it" Please
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  #53  
Old 16.11.2010, 18:51
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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Not to sound mean, but I've met plenty of women that use kids as weapons. I've also witnessed women using them as ATM's.

I've witnessed abusive mothers get kids in custody battles solely because they are female. One kept hers after her own mother stated that she thought she was unfit.

As a parent, all of those make me ill. For full disclosure, I'm married and have 2 kids (no others) with my wife.
Note:Here in Ontario Canada. A mother of two little girl,just got convicted of murdering her children (by grounding them in the bath tub) Reasons :She wanned to punishing her ex Now ask my about capital punishmentOn the otherhand don`t
http://www.canada.com/news/guilty+de...850/story.html
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Old 17.11.2010, 05:44
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Re: Antifeminism meeting in Zürich!

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Note:Here in Ontario Canada. A mother of two little girl,just got convicted of murdering her children (by grounding them in the bath tub) Reasons :She wanned to punishing her ex Now ask my about capital punishmentOn the otherhand don`t

Managed to find my way to the story:
http://www.canada.com/news/guilty+de...850/story.html

Very disturbing, very frightening.
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