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  #61  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:28
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

Hang on a minute, I'll go get a fresh exercise book, sharpen my pencils and wax crayons for coloring stuff in, this is better than school here tonight......
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  #62  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:35
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

It's a funny coincidence, but I was just reading about the Holy Roman Empire this afternoon, all about the fact that Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne as "Emperor of the Romans" in order to claim the Roman title for the Latin west, despite the fact that there was a perfectly adequate Roman Empire already in existence that hadn't been overrun by Germans.

It ended up in the Crusades, but that's a whole other subject...

So... naturalised Swiss. A pain in the arse to the indigenes, or an asset to be treasured (even if they haven't done their national service)?
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  #63  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:39
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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So... naturalised Swiss. A pain in the arse to the indigenes, or an asset to be treasured (even if they haven't done their national service)?

I know a lot of native Swiss who didn't go to the military. They just had to pay an extra tax. So I don't see how your assessment of who is more Swiss than anyone else makes any sense to anybody.
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  #64  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:42
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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I don't see how your assessment of who is more Swiss than anyone else makes any sense to anybody.
I wasn't asking you.

I was asking native-born Swiss people.

But thank you for your contribution, anyway.
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  #65  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:47
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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I wasn't asking you.

I was asking native-born Swiss people.

But thank you for your contribution, anyway.

Well, it's an open form DB.

A point is a point.
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  #66  
Old 02.11.2010, 23:57
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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It's a funny coincidence, but I was just reading about the Holy Roman Empire this afternoon, all about the fact that Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne as "Emperor of the Romans" in order to claim the Roman title for the Latin west, despite the fact that there was a perfectly adequate Roman Empire already in existence that hadn't been overrun by Germans.

It ended up in the Crusades, but that's a whole other subject...

So... naturalised Swiss. A pain in the arse to the indigenes, or an asset to be treasured (even if they haven't done their national service)?
This OT discussion about Karl the Great et al. is a bit silly, as germanic tribes, Germanic languages, German empires and the (modern) German nation are all very different from each other. Just think about the UK: Germanic language, the house of Hannover etc.

To me (probably as swiss as you can be, genetically) all overzealous "nationalists" are a pain in the a... whether they are naturalized or not does not really make any difference.
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  #67  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:17
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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You're joking right? When was Switzerland part of a German empire? Surely you mean the French or the Romans.
In the 1290ies most of Switzerland was part of the German Empire. Habsburg Castle is near Brugg/Aargau. The cities of Zurich and Berne were proud Free Imperial Cities of the German Empire as was Schaffhausen. Zurich seceded from Germany and joined the Swiss confederation in 1351, Berne in 1353, and Schaffhausen in 1501 . Neuenburg/Neuchâtel for a while was both a Swiss Canton and a Prussian Principality. The expansion into non German speaking areas started when the Bernese started a military campaign to conquer Savoyard Vaud, and succeeded thanks to their strong artillery. Strange is the point that freedom hungry Geneva allied with the Bernese, a move which finally lead to its becoming a CH-Canton. Ticino was gradually conquered by Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden when political turmoil in the Lombardy (Milano its Capital) offered them a chance to expand southward. Look at the tripartite castel in Bellinzona. Graubünden joined CH, when they got the feeling that the Kaiserreich no longer felt friendly towards their notions.

I don't know why you think about the French, but of course, the Romans were dominant until about 400AD.
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  #68  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:19
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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That's the "Holy" Roman Empire.
Sorry but its full name was
Holy Roman Empire of German Nation
Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation
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  #69  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:31
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Well I know just about every empire came through here; Romans, Charlemagne, Franks, Burgunds, Merovignians, Carlingians, etc. But to say they were Germans.... It's just as valid to say they were French or Romans, no?
No

The Romans YES
Karl der Grosse was what today would be German-French
The Franken NEVER played a role here in CH
Burgundy tried it under Karl der Kühne and failed
The Emperors of the German Empire WERE Germans
Modern France originated out of the Principality of Paris
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  #70  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:33
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Damn, do you mean the krauts have a claim to this place?
The "Krauts" recognized CH in 1648 in the Westfälischer Frieden
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  #71  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:36
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Yeah, I just thought of them more as French than German. But alright. Carry on.
No, Karl der Grosse spoke German and was German and most likely would not have been able to order a beer in French
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  #72  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:39
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Is there any resentment felt towards those who wait until they are too old to serve in the army before applying for, or acquiring citizenship?
Not at all ,There are classified as 'Wimps"
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  #73  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:39
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Well, you know... Franks-French... whatever.
When the Empire of Karl der Grosse broke apart, there was Franken, out of which, after another split, originated Normandie (later subsidiary of this was England), Paris and Burgundy. The eastern part of Franken however later became part of Bavaria. Amazing is that the smallest sector of "French" Franken, the Principality of Paris, became the surviving part later.
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  #74  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:43
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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But of course, there was no Germany to seceed from. So therefore, Switzerland did not seceed from Germany.
This very simply is wrong. When Emperor Rudolf II, who had grown up in what now is Switzerland, died, his son became ruler as Emperor Albrecht I. That German Emperor felt antipathies against the "Waldstätten" and was intent on robbing them of their autonomy rights granted them by his father. THIS lead to the seceeding of Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden. And to repeat it, Zürich, Bern and Schaffhausen were Free Imperial Cities of the German Empire and not of some ghost entity and so clearly knew from what they seceded.
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  #75  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:46
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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When the Empire of Karl der Grosse broke apart, there was Franken, out of which, after another split, originated Normandie (later subsidiary of this was England), Paris and Burgundy. The eastern part of Franken however later became part of Bavaria. Amazing is that the smallest sector of "French" Franken, the Principality of Paris, became the surviving part later.

Okay, thanks for the history of the 1st Reich. It's just that when you said Germany, I thought you meant Germany.
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  #76  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:48
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Yeah, I know. They even made it to Mexico.

Next thing you know, someone will say California seceeded from Germany.
California seceded from the Russian Empire Sure, Northern California was Russian, while Southern California was Mexican
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  #77  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:49
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Okay, thanks for the history of the 1st Reich. It's just that when you said Germany, I thought you meant Germany.
Except he didn't, did he, as you well know, Phos.

What he actually said, as if you need reminding, was:

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CH is to the South of Germany and is the result of secessions from the German Empire
But don't let reality get in the way of making yourself look like a pillock, eh?
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  #78  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:52
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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You mean this one here

or the National Anthem of the Repu... sorry State of Texas


and well, CH is to the South of Germany and is the result of secessions from the German Empire
Lucky you wolly! for the sorry ! the national anthem of the republik is "My eyes have seen the Glory of the coming of the lord " And if I hear it allways get goose bums ,because of the music
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Old 03.11.2010, 00:52
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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But don't let reality get in the way of making yourself look like a pillock, eh?

Meh, just an honest mistake.

I gotta say, it's much better than looking like an emotionally challenged miscreant who gets high off of insulting people.
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  #80  
Old 03.11.2010, 00:58
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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I know a lot of native Swiss who didn't go to the military. They just had to pay an extra tax. So I don't see how your assessment of who is more Swiss than anyone else makes any sense to anybody.
But this indeed is total and absolute and perfect RUBBISH. You could not escape military service by being ready to pay an extra tax. You could escape military service if you were handicapped physically or mentally. But if you declared to have such a problem you were checked up very thoroughly.

And there cannot be "a lot" as also this is / was not possible. So please be a bit more careful. I know/knew hundreds of Swiss who would have taken any available chance NOT to go to military service.

If you decided to refuse military service you got incarcerated on the Zugerberg for a full year ! This is the reality.
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