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  #141  
Old 30.01.2011, 23:04
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

Sorry Woolie - just don't get it - is being Neuchatelois less Swiss than being Zurcher?
Roschtigraben? LOL.

Last edited by Odile; 30.01.2011 at 23:34.
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  #142  
Old 31.01.2011, 00:37
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Spontaneous friendliness is not exactly the impression I on numerous visits to England felt to be around the natives.
How much time did you spend in the Midlands and North, just out of curiosity?
Not to speak of the folks in Edinburgh and Glasgow

Yes, it must have been seemed like you were in another country
.
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  #143  
Old 31.01.2011, 16:55
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

London was a different kettle of fish- and took a bit longer. But in the Midlands I was made to feel really welcome, invited to colleagues and friends homes, etc. Our time in Stoke/Newcastle-u-Lyme was absolutely brilliant- even though I cried when I first saw Shelton steel bar from Hartshill on a grey rainy day. Same in Leicestershire. I just don't know how to say this without being dropped on from a very great height - but it is often YOUR attitude that determines how people react to you.

As from today, OH is now Jurassien, not Neuchatelois, as this is my family's origin (of Huguenot stock). Is that acceptable for a Zurcher.
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  #144  
Old 31.01.2011, 18:10
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Sorry Woolie - just don't get it - is being Neuchatelois less Swiss than being Zurcher?
Roschtigraben? LOL.
Um.... I think his point is that you are citizen of the commune and canton first. Then only secondarily (is that a word? ) you are "Swiss".
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  #145  
Old 31.01.2011, 19:34
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Then only secondarily (is that a word? ) you are "Swiss".
Second. You should dictionaryize that word.
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  #146  
Old 31.01.2011, 20:19
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Second. You should dictionaryize that word.
Dictionating takes too long. Plus, I would have had to change the placementization of the words in order to use "second", no?

PS: Ok, I dictionated it! Secondarily IS a word! It's an adverb. So, was it used correctly? That is the question.
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  #147  
Old 31.01.2011, 22:34
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

Depends which side of the pond you are in.
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  #148  
Old 31.01.2011, 23:30
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Gebauchpinselt Sorry there is no translation for it. Let me know when you get yours
"You're giving me a swollen head?"

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_...chpinselt.html
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  #149  
Old 31.01.2011, 23:55
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Sorry Woolie - just don't get it - is being Neuchatelois less Swiss than being Zurcher?
Roschtigraben? LOL.
No, it is the other way round. If somebody in the Canton of Zurich becomes a local citizen, the person becomes a citizen of the Canton of Zurich and second a citizen of a municipality, and as a result of this a citizen of the confederation.

Let's take Thayingen in the Canton of Schaffhausen. A person gets local citizenship in Thayingen. This means that the person becomes a citizen FIRST of the Canton of Schaffhausen and second of Thayingen. And in fact only as a side-result a citizen of the Confederation
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  #150  
Old 31.01.2011, 23:56
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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No, it is the other way round. If somebody in the Canton of Zurich becomes a local citizen, the person becomes a citizen of the Canton of Zurich and second a citizen of a municipality, and as a result of this a citizen of the confederation.

Let's take Thayingen in the Canton of Schaffhausen. A person gets local citizenship in Thayingen. This means that the person becomes a citizen FIRST of the Canton of Schaffhausen and second of Thayingen. And in fact only as a side-result a citizen of the Confederation
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  #151  
Old 01.02.2011, 00:01
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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a typical "Grenzgänger-Mentalität"
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  #152  
Old 01.02.2011, 03:26
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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No, it is the other way round. If somebody in the Canton of Zurich becomes a local citizen, the person becomes a citizen of the Canton of Zurich and second a citizen of a municipality, and as a result of this a citizen of the confederation.

Let's take Thayingen in the Canton of Schaffhausen. A person gets local citizenship in Thayingen. This means that the person becomes a citizen FIRST of the Canton of Schaffhausen and second of Thayingen. And in fact only as a side-result a citizen of the Confederation
Let me get this straight. If Wolli were to become an American citizen, he would apply for citizenship on the NATIONAL level first. Once that is taken care of, he could become a citizen of the "canton" of Maryland once he became a resident and registered to vote. The state, county, and city citizenship is secondary to the U.S. and comes naturally once the latter is attained.

In Switzerland, you have to apply for citizenship in the place you are going to live, and do so by the LOCAL laws. This makes sense when you consider the different language areas in Switzerland. The rules for becoming a citizen of the canton (and republic) of Geneva are different than that of Zürich, and certainly different from Schwyz. Only after you have passed the requirement for local citizenship does a new Genevan/Zürcher/Congoan get the benefits of SWISS citizenship on the NATIONAL level. The national citizenship comes only after attaining the local citizenship.
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  #153  
Old 05.02.2011, 12:21
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

I feel there is some issue here with the argumentation. One is not from where he is born, but ultimately from where he lives, works and pays taxes. Even if one does not have the passport, living in the country, conducting a normal citizen life and paying one's taxes should be enough to grant equality and respectability. For the wild ones...well, there's the beschaffungsinitiative, right?
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  #154  
Old 05.02.2011, 15:45
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Let me get this straight. If Wolli were to become an American citizen, he would apply for citizenship on the NATIONAL level first. Once that is taken care of, he could become a citizen of the "canton" of Maryland once he became a resident and registered to vote. The state, county, and city citizenship is secondary to the U.S. and comes naturally once the latter is attained.

In Switzerland, you have to apply for citizenship in the place you are going to live, and do so by the LOCAL laws. This makes sense when you consider the different language areas in Switzerland. The rules for becoming a citizen of the canton (and republic) of Geneva are different than that of Zürich, and certainly different from Schwyz. Only after you have passed the requirement for local citizenship does a new Genevan/Zürcher/Congoan get the benefits of SWISS citizenship on the NATIONAL level. The national citizenship comes only after attaining the local citizenship.
Not from where you live, but from where your family (or your OH's family) hails from 'la Commune d'Origine' which in our case is not the same as the Canton I was born in or where we live nowadays. It is the Commune d'Origine which will make the final decision and have a right of appeal against the 'yes' decision already given. Because if we ever fall on bad times and need help, they will be responsible for us, financially and socially. Genealogy in CH is so simple, as all births, marriages, deaths etc, are always registered at the Commune d'origine (I was about 56 when I went there for the first time- don't know anybody there, and yet all the documents for my family are there. It is very important to know where you hail from as a family. My mother's family papers are in another Commune/Canton- and I know the origins of my maternal and paternal grand-mothers, etc, as their respective papers for generations are there.
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  #155  
Old 05.02.2011, 19:28
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Not from where you live, but from where your family (or your OH's family) hails from 'la Commune d'Origine' which in our case is not the same as the Canton I was born in or where we live nowadays. It is the Commune d'Origine which will make the final decision and have a right of appeal against the 'yes' decision already given. Because if we ever fall on bad times and need help, they will be responsible for us, financially and socially. Genealogy in CH is so simple, as all births, marriages, deaths etc, are always registered at the Commune d'origine (I was about 56 when I went there for the first time- don't know anybody there, and yet all the documents for my family are there. It is very important to know where you hail from as a family. My mother's family papers are in another Commune/Canton- and I know the origins of my maternal and paternal grand-mothers, etc, as their respective papers for generations are there.
In case of foreigners, the "Commune d'Origine" simply is Ausland . So, what matters is where a foreigners lives.
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  #156  
Old 05.02.2011, 19:31
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

So why does MY commune d'origine, which is in a different Canton to where I was born, and in a different Canton to where we live - have the last right of Veto on OH's naturalisation? All our documents are there, marriage certificate, livret de famille, etc, not where we live. The documents held here are just mere copies. He is not a 'just a foreigner' but has been my OH for near on 40 years - so was entitled to 'facilitated naturalisation'.

(Yes, I know, he does deserve a big medal)
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  #157  
Old 05.02.2011, 21:05
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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So why does MY commune d'origine, which is in a different Canton to where I was born, and in a different Canton to where we live - have the last right of Veto on OH's naturalisation? All our documents are there, marriage certificate, livret de famille, etc, not where we live. The documents held here are just mere copies. He is not a 'just a foreigner' but has been my OH for near on 40 years - so was entitled to 'facilitated naturalisation'.

(Yes, I know, he does deserve a big medal)
Because YOU already were Swiss when he became a citizen of NE, and so, YOUR commune d'origine has the veto-right in this case
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  #158  
Old 05.02.2011, 21:08
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

LOL - yes thanks - that was clear from the start, no? Have a great week-end. Swissie
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Old 05.02.2011, 22:37
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

Quick question for Wolli---I heard there was a case where some family who had immigrated from Eastern Europe moved into a Swiss canton. They learned the local language, integrated (or thought they did), and followed all the rules but their application to become naturalized Swiss citizens were vetoed by the locals and the federal government had to step in.

First, have you heard about this case? If so, are such interventions rare?
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Old 05.02.2011, 23:23
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Re: Swissier than the Swiss?

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Quick question for Wolli---I heard there was a case where some family who had immigrated from Eastern Europe moved into a Swiss canton. They learned the local language, integrated (or thought they did), and followed all the rules but their application to become naturalized Swiss citizens were vetoed by the locals and the federal government had to step in.

First, have you heard about this case? If so, are such interventions rare?
Until fairly recently, decisions about who could become citizens, in small towns and many villages, were done by the whole electorate, who often made decisions "out of the empty stomach" which in practice often meant anti-exYugo ! THIS was the problem in the case you mentioned. And this was where the federal government moved in, as it violated the "equal rights principle" quite clearly. Such things DID happen frequently. In the meantime, the rules were changed and it now is to business of the authorities to decide, and to decide on the basis of the law. But the conservatives (including a particular party) still try to find a way to hand powers back to "communal assemblies"

No, such things were not rare, and were subjects to uncountable jokes and even to a film about the topic.

I give you a practical example. A businessman I know, who now lives in Nicosia, grew up, as an Italian, in Cairo, then after 1958 lived in Switzerland until 1969, and then, after stays in Ankara and Tehran, in about 1974 got settled in Cyprus, for many years met the ambassadors of Switzerland and Italy for a nice round of card games (Jass), but one evening the Italian ambassador told the CH colleague "you will never succeed to make Br.... a CH-citizen", and then the CH... said "I WILL succeed within 3 months, but if so, you will have to hand me 12 bottles of good Italian wine, if not, I will be the one to give you 12 bottles of good Italian wine. 2 months later, Mr B... S... got a phone call of the Swiss ambassador "can you come to my embassy, your new passport is ready". And Mr B... S.... then learnt that Mr Ambassador had made him a citizen of the City of Winterthur (his own town) and the Canton of Zurich via the City governement of Winterthur. Mr B... S... had lived in Zurich Wollishofen for many years but had never been in Winterthur, but since then has paid some visit to "his" town !
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