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  #441  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:28
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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But seriously, how will this law have any effect on your life?
OK, I'll get off the fence and say what I really think then.

The law itself is not the issue here - it's the sanctioning of a racist policy by the Swiss public that I find outrageous.

There. Said it
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  #442  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:30
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

As far as I´m concerned, SVP can shove it..(snow, if you will..)
I will never ever see eye to eye with them or anyone else who thinks and acts like a seriously delusional 5-year old kicking and screaming in the toys R us store for not getting what he/she wants.

I am so very sorry this initiative came from them, though..cos I´ll be the first to say "get rid of lowlife no matter where they come from"..
I am sick and tired being treated like a criminal with a record for stupid things stupid kids (most of the time they are kids) from my region do!

Having said that, two scenarios are probable:
The foreigners will be treated better or those same foreigners will be on thin ice with SVP and every single swiss born person just waiting around the corner for you to do a no-no so that they can be proved right, and with time ofcourse the laws will only get worse and more strict, until finally one day the whole Switzerland will be free of any kind of alien nationality.

I think we all know what scenario is more bound to happen.
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  #443  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:31
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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OK, I'll get off the fence and say what I really think then.

The law itself is not the issue here - it's the sanctioning of a racist policy by the Swiss public that I find outrageous.

There. Said it
And I would argue that it's not racist. No single ethnic or cultural minority is being persecuted simply for being a member of said minority.
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  #444  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:31
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

im just saying, that there are huge differences in voting behaviour between one and another place in switzerland, and in my opinion, you you can feel the difference when living there.
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  #445  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:33
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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OK, I'll get off the fence and say what I really think then.

The law itself is not the issue here - it's the sanctioning of a racist policy by the Swiss public that I find outrageous.

There. Said it
Racist? Against whom in particular? The Russians? The North Africans? The Balkans? The East Europeans? Too many different nationalities to use the word "racist"

Now about that argument about money laundering by the rich foreigners here, I tend to agree with you on that. However, money laundering does not affect the typical Swiss citizen.

Last edited by olygirl; 29.11.2010 at 11:33. Reason: grammar
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  #446  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:34
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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And I would argue that it's not racist. No single ethnic or cultural minority is being persecuted simply for being a member of said minority.
OK insert a different word if you want to - but it is discriminating against everyone who is not Swiss.

One law for the Swiss, another law for everyone else.

Hey, why not deport the Swiss criminals to Australia, then we'll be back to the good old days of Great Britain?
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  #447  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:37
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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But seriously, how will this law have any effect on your life?
Right now, not much.

But as Mr V said in a post above yours, where is this road taking us?

I've lived here 11 years, all three children born here. We are having a house built.

What happens in 5+ years' time (when our children are fully integrated into the CH system) and there's a vote to stop foreigners owning property here?

What happens if they decide to cut the number of C-permits by 50%, and I'm the one who gets cut because (for example) I've lost my job and I'm on benefits and foreigners shouldn't get unemployment benefits?

This is not unthinkable in the current economic and social climate.

I've always maintained that the main reason for getting citizenship would be to make sure the Swiss can't kick me out of my home, and based on this vote, I will seriously reconsider getting citizenship. If I was living in a French part, I would probably already have applied (due to the language), but as my German is too bad, it'll take me a while longer...
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  #448  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:37
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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And now I see that actually that's not the case. That people really are against foreigners here and they don't see that this is just the thin end of the wedge.

I actually feel very sad about it - I had faith in the Swiss people and they've not lived up to it. (I guess I thought the minaret thing was just an anomaly!)

As someone who really planned to be here for a long time, this is something that I am now going to seriously reconsider. Frankly I'm not sure I want to live here if these SVP guys are actually taken seriously by the Swiss people because that's not the way I want to live my life - being scared about what anti-foreign initiative they are going to come up with next.

Boo hoo...

I realize that foreigners do not easily understand the Swiss perspective. It is evident on the posts here on EF. It took me a while as well. But if you are going to live in Switzerland, it can only be to your benefit to get some understanding of the Swiss point of view.

First of all, the Swiss are not anti-foreigner. There are plenty of evidence the Swiss love foreigners. The more exotic they are, the more appreciated.

What foreigners do not understand is the Swiss sense of propriety and conservation. The Swiss care about their possessions, their environment, their culture and their country. In social and civic interactions, they measure what they do, and correct any problems they may have caused. This is how this society has manage to run efficiently, by everyone doing their part and taking responsibility for their actions.

Problems occur when foreigners come here and do not understand this, or refuse to pull their weight; or worse yet, work against society. Lack of cultural education can be corrected over time and forgiven, but willful defiance would cause one to lose any favor. When foreigners deliberately disregard these things, they show a disregard and disrespect for Switzerland and the Swiss themselves. It's like pooping in someone's living room, it is not welcomed, and neither is the foreigner. I would kick them out of the house.

I suppose you would only really recognize the sentiment if you actually started to care about this country, its environment, its culture, and its society. But I suppose some have never really had such a sense of responsibility in their lives. Some are basically like wandering nomads, pitching a tent here and there, leaving when they've used up all its resources, leaving a mess.... wondering why they are not feeling welcomed. As a foreigner, you don't really have a stake in Switzerland. You can get up and leave anytime you want. What, are you expecting to be treated like royalty? But you are a wandering nomad.

Get to work, pay your taxes, and don't cause any problems!

Last edited by Phos; 29.11.2010 at 11:56.
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  #449  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:39
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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OK insert a different word if you want to - but it is discriminating against everyone who is not Swiss.

One law for the Swiss, another law for everyone else.

Hey, why not deport the Swiss criminals to Australia, then we'll be back to the good old days of Great Britain?
It's only discriminating against those who break the law.
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  #450  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:44
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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It's only discriminating against those who break the law.
Let's imagine that one night you drink too much beer and take your car. Unfortunately you have an accident and you completely destroy a bus stop or a phone booth. As foreigner even after living here for 10-20 years you run the risk of being sent back to your home country. Till now a judge would evaluate your situation before taking a decision, with the new "law" it will be automatic. Fair?
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  #451  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:45
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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First bit


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Second bit:

I suppose you would only really recognize the sentiment if you actually started to care about this country, its environment, its culture, and its society. But I suppose some have never really had such a sense of responsibility in their lives. Some are basically like wandering nomads, pitching a tent here and there, leaving when they've used up all its resources, leaving a mess.... wondering why they are not feeling welcomed. As a foreigner, you don't really have a stake in Switzerland. You can get up and leave anytime you want. What, are you expecting to be treated like royalty? But you are a wandering nomad.


That's really quite simplistic. The Nomads won't give a **** because they'll just go somewhere else.

Some of us who have been here a while, are settled and do have some understanding and appreciation of the Swiss way of life, have concerns too.
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  #452  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:48
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Get to work, pay your taxes, and don't cause any problems!
I take it you haven't read about the SVP's next agenda items, which are already being taken from their drawers: Migration under the scope of the bilateral EU-Swiss treaties has to be reduced, since such migration - according to the SVP - is the key factor in many problems Swiss society has to deal with these days, including unemployment, lack of affordable housing, destroying the beautiful Swiss countryside ("Zersiedelung").
Note that the SVP is talking about working, law-abiding, tax-paying people here - not criminals.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:48
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Let's imagine that one night you drink too much beer and take your car. Unfortunately you have an accident and you completely destroy a bus stop or a phone booth. As foreigner even after living here for 10-20 years you run the risk of being sent back to your home country. Till now a judge would evaluate your situation before taking a decision, with the new "law" it will be automatic. Fair?
To be honest? Anyone who drinks too much and drives is endangering the lives of otehrs, so yes, fair, irrespective of how long I'd lived here. If that had happened to me, yes I'd seriously worry about deportation (not any more though ).
Longevity of stay does not preclude you from being an arsehole.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:49
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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OK insert a different word if you want to - but it is discriminating against everyone who is not Swiss.
The word you might want is "xenophobic"

I'm pessimistic as well, but I think I will not be here long enough to have any reason for concern.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:49
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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That's really quite simplistic. The Nomads won't give a **** because they'll just go somewhere else.

Some of us who have been here a while, are settled and do have some understanding and appreciation of the Swiss way of life, have concerns too.

There is a path open to you for citizenship. You are welcome to it.
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  #456  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:51
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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To be honest? Anyone who drinks too much and drives is endangering the lives of otehrs, so yes, fair, irrespective of how long I'd lived here. If that had happened to me, yes I'd seriously worry about deportation (not any more though ).
Longevity of stay does not preclude you from being an arsehole.
- don't think you are on safe side, like in France SVP may launch an initiative for those who got citizenship in the last 10years

- there should be a balance between the punishment and the "offense"...in valais driving drunk is a cantonal sport.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:51
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

My stepdad's theory is that people might think twice before doing something stupid but then I think that a lot of crime happens on impulse. What MIGHT happen is that parents who let their kids get away with far too much become more strict as they realise that the slippery slope might lead to getting kicked out of the country. Maybe. Probably not.

As for Swiss getting away with things and foreigners being punished too much - a friend of my stepdad's had a primary school kid who always got beaten up by his neighbour's teenage sons. Both men are from Kosovo, the first has been here for years and is fully integrated, the second - not so much. One day the son came home bleeding after being beaten up again, so the father went downstairs to speak with his neighbour, who just laughed at him. So the concerned father said, fine, I'll make a police report. At this point the neighbour and a friend of his who was visiting that evening rushed at him and started beating him up. The guy made it up to his flat but these guys followed him into his flat and beat him up some more, broke his arm and then tried to throw him over the balcony - on the fourth floor, all in front of the guy's family.

The perpetrators got two weeks in jail, which is an insult to the victim. To me, guys who think they are above the law and who are raising offspring who thinks that way too have no business in this country. I don't care if it's not an "enlightened" way of thinking, I do not want to feel I can't go to the police because the person I'm having a perfectly reasonable argument with happens to come from a place where "we settle things directly". As I said, I know several foreigners who now have Swiss passports who have voted for this because they feel that it will improve things.

As for the next initiative being "all foreigners must wear silly hats and walk backwards on Saturdays" - I really doubt it. If anything, this debacle might finally make the parties that are NOT the SVP come to a bit more of a consensus so that they can combat them. At least that's what it should do, sadly, like all politicians, ours are just human and reluctant to step down from a point of view in aid of a better outcome.
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  #458  
Old 29.11.2010, 11:54
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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- there should be a balance between the punishment and the "offense"...in valais driving drunk is a cantonal sport.
Oh, so that's why Wallisers are such god-awful drivers? I thought it was genetic.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:54
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I take it you haven't read about the SVP's next agenda items, which are already being taken from their drawers: Migration under the scope of the bilateral EU-Swiss treaties has to be reduced, since such migration - according to the SVP - is the key factor in many problems Swiss society has to deal with these days, including unemployment, lack of affordable housing, destroying the beautiful Swiss countryside ("Zersiedelung").
Note that the SVP is talking about working, law-abiding, tax-paying people here - not criminals.

No, I haven't read it. But it has nothing to do with the expulsion initiative. If they manage to get something on that, we can talk about it then. Until then, I don't see what there is to worry about.
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Old 29.11.2010, 11:56
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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- there should be a balance between the punishment and the "offense"...in valais driving drunk is a cantonal sport.
Well, it shouldn't be and I find it shocking that you seem to think it's not a problem.
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