Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:34
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
I know what's gonna happen in this case, SVP will come up on all media saying "You see, we told you, foreigners are evil and lazy, they want to destroy the economy of our country"
or worse... see during the week crime rate droped dramatically
Reply With Quote
  #502  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:35
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Mother Teresa?
Close, but no cigar. And no, it wasn't Ghandi either (even though he was pretty keen on getting the Brits out)
Reply With Quote
  #503  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:36
Mowvich's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Genève
Posts: 1,422
Groaned at 28 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,308 Times in 607 Posts
Mowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
Taken from swiss info:

The initiative aims at the automatic deportation of foreigners convicted of serious crimes such as murder, rape, other serious sexual offences, violence such as armed robbery, drug trafficking, human trafficking, and breaking and entering. Welfare fraud is also included.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials...l?cid=28899524


Just so that we all know what we are talking about.

The article goes on to say that each case will be judged INDIVIDUALLY.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but don't you really get it after 25 pages!!!

The law is right and i have no objection for hard measures against criminals, the way this initiative was put in place is wrong, the main target it's not only applying the law, it's a series of discriminative measures against foreigners for some reason, SVP injects hate into Swiss citizens by announcing false facts....got it now??

Use your common sense as a human being rather than just following what you been told
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:37
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,753
Groaned at 107 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,424 Times in 1,138 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Just out of interest, can anyone hazard a guess as to who said this:

"There's no convincing case for putting anything higher on the priority list in terms of deportation than persons who've committed crimes,'' ?
Aside from my sarky comment above, googling this refers the frist 2 dozen links to *one* story about a guy called Ezeiquiel Lopez.

On reading it, "Representative David Price, a North Carolina Democrat". Who? And?

Were you alluding to Obama perchance?
Reply With Quote
  #505  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:37
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
The article goes on to say that each case will be judged INDIVIDUALLY.
Yes, but the sentencing won't be...

Swiss: case-by-case sentencing based on the situation.

Foreign: pack your bags!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #506  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:39
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,756
Groaned at 419 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 18,265 Times in 5,656 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but don't you really get it after 25 pages!!!

The law is right and i have no objection for hard measures against criminals, the way this initiative was put in place is wrong, the main target it's not only applying the law, it's a series of discriminative measures against foreigners for some reason, SVP injects hate into Swiss citizens by announcing false facts....got it now??
Sorry, my friend. I see the glass half full and you see the glass half empty. I understand how foreigners can see this as a jab against them but, if this initiative were carried out only against criminals, wouldn't it make everyone's life that much more safe?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #507  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:39
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

As pointed out, people against these initiative are not pro-criminal, I guess most of us foreigners dislike criminals. The issue is the trend...

Honestly I don't feel very welcome here anymore

maybe Swiss misplaced hospitality with hostility...?
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:40
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
Aside from my sarky comment above, googling this refers the frist 2 dozen links to *one* story about a guy called Ezeiquiel Lopez.

On reading it, "Representative David Price, a North Carolina Democrat". Who? And?

Were you alluding to Obama perchance?
What I was alluding to is that this issue is not restricted to Switzerland alone.

Edit: Oh, correct by the way, have a biscuit.
Reply With Quote
  #509  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:40
HashBrown's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,289
Groaned at 68 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,340 Posts
HashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
I know Blocher's firm has something like 22% foreign staff. They might be misguided sometimes, but they're not stupid.
I believe the correct word here should be manipulative. They know exactly what they're doing. Railing on about criminals while being drunk drivers and going on about foreign workers lowering salaries when their profits in fact rely on employing a large percentage of such workforce.
Reply With Quote
  #510  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:41
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,756
Groaned at 419 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 18,265 Times in 5,656 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
As pointed out, people against these initiative are not pro-criminal, I guess most of us foreigners dislike criminals. The issue is the trend...

Honestly I don't feel very welcome here anymore

maybe Swiss misplaced hospitality with hostility...?
I have asked this question before: how has this initiative affected your life directly? Have you felt any consequences?

The mass hysteria and rheotoric boggles my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:42
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post

(...)
Just so that we all know what we are talking about.

The article goes on to say that each case will be judged INDIVIDUALLY.
From the initiative text (in german): " Die Volksinitiative will Ausländerinnen und Ausländern automatisch das Aufenthaltsrecht entziehen, wenn sie bestimmte Straftaten begangen oder missbräuchlich Sozialleistungen bezogen haben"

Did you spot the word "automatic" before you voted YES?
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,940
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,599 Times in 2,882 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
I'm really surprised by this sentiment. I thought most people would support equality under the law and that no group should be privileged or disadvantaged in law whether they are politicians, foreigners or racial minority. The proposal reminded me of the forced removals under apartheid.
If the laws were not clear and we were talking about things that you do not know unless you grew up here, then I would feel it was wrong. But we are talking about laws that you can choose not to break, you enter this country knowing that those are the rules.

Again, all this is not your problem if you are a law-abiding citizen. The ideological debate that will be held ad nauseam is pretty pointless because that is not going to change a thing. And if you start telling the Swiss Joe Bloggs that he should not have the right to vote a certain way or that the EU will come down on us like a tonne of bricks, it will only push him further into the SVP corner, because all of these votes against foreign things are going in the same direction of reacting against what is perceived as being negatively affected by outward influences.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #513  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:45
Mowvich's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Genève
Posts: 1,422
Groaned at 28 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,308 Times in 607 Posts
Mowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond reputeMowvich has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, my friend. I see the glass half full and you see the glass half empty. I understand how foreigners can see this as a jab against them but, if this initiative were carried out only against criminals, wouldn't it make everyone's life that much more safe?
Against criminals....a huge YES, i will feel much more safer and confident it's all for the Swiss citizens and my own (as a foreigner) benefits and security, but now i feel Swiss citizens are feeling safer (with more hate against foreigners deep inside), while me (being on the same class as the acclaimed bad guys) feeling unsecured and much offended.

Hope this explains it all and no hard feelings.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:45
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,756
Groaned at 419 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 18,265 Times in 5,656 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
If the laws were not clear and we were talking about things that you do not know unless you grew up here, then I would feel it was wrong. But we are talking about laws that you can choose not to break, you enter this country knowing that those are the rules.

Again, all this is not your problem if you are a law-abiding citizen. The ideological debate that will be held ad nauseam is pretty pointless because that is not going to change a thing. And if you start telling the Swiss Joe Bloggs that he should not have the right to vote a certain way or that the EU will come down on us like a tonne of bricks, it will only push him further into the SVP corner, because all of these votes against foreign things are going in the same direction of reacting against what is perceived as being negatively influenced by outward influences.
An excellent point. Well written.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:46
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,913
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
From the initiative text (in german): " Die Volksinitiative will Ausländerinnen und Ausländern automatisch das Aufenthaltsrecht entziehen, wenn sie bestimmte Straftaten begangen oder missbräuchlich Sozialleistungen bezogen haben"

Did you spot the word "automatic" before you voted YES?
Did you spot the word"bestimmte" befor????
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:47
HashBrown's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,289
Groaned at 68 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,340 Posts
HashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

As for this specific initiative, people are deported here and elsewhere due to having a criminal record without citizenship. It's the AUTOMATIC part that is scary. Even in Canada right now, our right-wing govt is trying to score points by deporting a man who was born in Canada and lived there all his life to India as a result of criminal convictions. To me, that is just wrong. He is Canadian, not Indian. People born in Canada are automatically citizens. Except in his weird case, this may not apply, as his parents were in the employ of the Indian embassy at the time. His parents have since got citizenship, but no one ever thought he had to apply. The fact that the govt is pushing for his expulsion to score political points in their right-wing base shows that things should never be automatic. The specific situation should always be considered for such serious action.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank HashBrown for this useful post:
  #517  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:47
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,756
Groaned at 419 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 18,265 Times in 5,656 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
Against criminals....a huge YES, i will feel much more safer and confident it's all for the Swiss citizens and my own (as a foreigner) benefits and security, but now i feel Swiss citizens are feeling safer (with more hate against foreigners deep inside), while me (being on the same class as the acclaimed bad guys) feeling unsecured and much offended.

Hope this explains it all and no hard feelings.
It all boils down to perception. I hope this feeling will soon subside and you can go back to feeling welcomed and accepted again.
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:48
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Just out of interest, if the same question came up in your country of origin and you had the opportunity to vote on it, which way would you vote?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #519  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Switzerland debates tough deportation proposal.

Quote:
View Post
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials...l?cid=28899524
... The article goes on to say that each case will be judged INDIVIDUALLY.
The article goes on to quote the Federal Migration Commission to claim that each case will have to be judged individually. That may be wishful thinking on their part - and I am not aware of this Commissioon having any decision-making authority.
The key part seems to be this statement
Quote:
"In future, foreign nationals who have committed one of the criminal offences named in the text of the initiative should automatically lose their right of residence and be deported to their country of origin," said a government statement.
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 29.11.2010, 13:49
HashBrown's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,289
Groaned at 68 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,340 Posts
HashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Quote:
View Post
An excellent point. Well written.
Except that not everyone entered the country, but were born here.

So why don't these people apply for Swiss citizenship. Is it becase of the compulsory army duty?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HashBrown for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Security Creation Initiative [aka SVP black sheep and grabbing hands posters] chemgoddess Swiss politics/news 600 30.09.2011 20:30
Expulsion of jobless EU workers backed lobd Permits/visas/government 60 11.06.2010 06:59
Ausschaffungsinitiative [Expulsion Initiative] Gastro Gnome Swiss politics/news 89 16.12.2009 23:07
Basel's free health initiative mimi1981 Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 2 23.05.2008 17:02


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0