Totally appreciate your input and would be happy if the majority would think the same way as you do, but this is not the case.

Unfortunately, faith and human rights are not something that SVP are willing to consider.

If a proposal was made to have harsher sentences for black criminals would that be simply anti-crime or would it be racist?

Mowvich, how do you come to such conclusion about what the Swiss are thinking? Just about everybody has reached the conclusion it will not be automatic deportation.

But it wasn't and therefore the argument isn't relevant.

The argument has the same logical structure.

We're are one part of the equation so our input is definitely valid if not essential.

Swiss have the right to decide whatever with their own country and laws, but when it comes to amending the constitution against certain race, religion or social class (at least not for the right reasons as it seems), i find this really discriminative.

Indeed it does.

The SVP line of logic:
"All foreigners are criminals (named Ivan)
Therefore all foreigners should be targeted with punitive measures"

There was uproar in the UK a few years ago when the head of the Met (from memory) came out with the comment that black people commit more crime, therefore are more scrutinised. It is the same thinking process:

"All blacks are criminals
Therefore all blacks should be targeted"

http://www.20min.ch/news/ostschweiz/...ative-23975621


http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/31043369

I agree completely.

However, SVP are just a bit more transparent in that respect. All of the major parties just want to win as many seats as possible. If you're a principled politician and don't want to do dirty tricks then you can't rise up to that level. I know several people who are in politics in different parties ranging from the FDP to the greens. They are all very decent people and I am sure they believe every word they say and want to do the best job. But they are all politicians on the councils of small towns, and they have been for a long time. They're never going to rise beyond that. To rise to a national level you have to use your elbows and compromise your principles. So as a voter, if you're a cynic you know they're all crooks but you vote for the crook whose game you know rather than the one whose game you don't. Maybe this is part of the recipe of SVp's success, as indeed it is with Berlusconi.

That's some exagerration. I think you are missing quite a lot of context in that. I'm a foreigner and voted for the Gegenvorschlag. But let's just say that perception is largely subjective.

Congratulations. You use the same manipulative arguments and exaggerated statements as the SVP. If you both were of the same opinion, what a great team you'd make.

That was my point... if you know that they are manipulative arguments and exaggerated statements, then you know that they are not true. Therefore how can you trust what the party is putting forward as anything other than an attention-grabbing, vote-trawling move by a particular party?

You've basically bought into the lie that this will benefit you in anyway and that this will make CH "safer" as all those nasty nasty foreign criminals won't come here/will be removed from the country, at the expense of equal/fair/unbiased justice.

Way to go!

@Phos - I would have voted for the alternate as well (as stated earlier in the thread). TBH I don't think it is an exaggeration. If the SVP thought they could get away with it, I do believe they would stop all economic immigration to the country, but even they have to admit that CH wouldn't work without foreigners.

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Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion

You fail to see the discrimination in the proposal. The example is just meant to try and bring it to the foreground.

Justice should be blind - all should be equal before the law.

It seems your vote went to the wrong side.

If you are neither Swiss nor a foreign criminal, then you are not part of the equation...

I'm here for justice after all, it should be equally applied with no discriminative measures.....regardless of being foreigner or Swiss, we are equal human beings FFS,

SVP is brainwashing the population and injecting poisonous information and feelings within the citizens, consequences won't be in favor of Switzerland at the end and everyone knows it, the only beneficiary here is SVP and when it's all screwed up, they will just stay there smiling and drinking their champaign for taking over the country and government and deporting all the foreigners.

That's how it all started with the Nazis "for the sake of the population", then it turned to be "Let's take over everything"

Some Quotes

• "All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach." Done by SVP
• "By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise." Done by SVP
• "Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice. " Done by SVP

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Silence is an argument carried out by other means.

More terms will be added to the equation as time passes. Most likely a few variables will become constants.

So you mean that Swiss people voted for an initiative that has not been fully defined...- GO DIRECT DEMOCRACY!

PS. Also SVP said that their "Deliktkatalog" is NOT complete...what *beeping* joke they are!

Wow! Human rights violations in Switzerland? You know, there are other places in the world where they have serious violations of human rights. Come on now. I think you are just pissed.



Okay, to be perfectly frank, the SVP did not inject those ideas in people's heads. They were already there. It's just that nobody else was listening.

Yeah, but I bet they don't have those scary posters!

Given the choice between electrodes on the genitals and a poster of some scary sheep, I'm not sure which I'd choose...

I think I'll just go and hide in my cellar for a bit.