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  #741  
Old 30.11.2010, 13:40
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I can recommend this interview of a Professor in Bern: (sorry only in German)..
especially for you SVP-fan-boys...

http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/schweiz/...story/21016051
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  #742  
Old 30.11.2010, 13:55
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Yeah, but I bet they don't have those scary posters!
You sure? Beat this for scariness ...
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  #743  
Old 30.11.2010, 13:58
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I can recommend this interview of a Professor in Bern: (sorry only in German)..
especially for you SVP-fan-boys...

http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/schweiz/...story/21016051

Funny...a translated bit from the above interview :

"Dazu möchte ich festhalten: Die Initiative trifft nur jene Ausländer mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung in der Schweiz."

"In addition I would like to say: The Initiative applies only those foreigners with residence permits in Switzerland."


Do criminals really get into the hassles of first getting a residence permit and then committing the crimes ?

So, once again, who is this targeted at ?
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  #744  
Old 30.11.2010, 14:02
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Funny...a translated bit from the above interview :

"Dazu möchte ich festhalten: Die Initiative trifft nur jene Ausländer mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung in der Schweiz."

"In addition I would like to say: The Initiative applies only those foreigners with residence permits in Switzerland."


Do criminals really get into the hassles of first getting a residence permit and then committing the crimes ?

So, once again, who is this targeted at ?
SVP's legal foreign population reduction (erasure) plan
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  #745  
Old 30.11.2010, 14:47
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Funny...a translated bit from the above interview :

"Dazu möchte ich festhalten: Die Initiative trifft nur jene Ausländer mit Aufenthaltsbewilligung in der Schweiz."

"In addition I would like to say: The Initiative applies only those foreigners with residence permits in Switzerland."

Do criminals really get into the hassles of first getting a residence permit and then committing the crimes ?

So, once again, who is this targeted at ?
So this means foreigners who are here without work permits will not get deported?

About " Do criminals really get into the hassles of first getting a residence permit and then committing the crimes ?"
Well according to the Bundesamt für Statistik about 50% of the foreigners convicted of serious crimes do not have a residence permit. So the answer to your question is "some do, some don't"
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  #746  
Old 30.11.2010, 14:59
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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/snip
and a poster of some scary sheep, I'm not sure which I'd choose...
Like this?
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  #747  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:00
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Okay, to be perfectly frank, the SVP did not inject those ideas in people's heads. They were already there. It's just that nobody else was listening.
Not really, they have been fear-mongering for years and are directly responsible that about 51% of all Swiss are apparently Nazis now.
I'm Swiss myself and I'm ashamed to live here.
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  #748  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:03
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Not really, they have been fear-mongering for years and are directly responsible that about 51% of all Swiss are apparently Nazis now.
I'm Swiss myself and I'm ashamed to live here.
I think maybe you need to look up "National Socialism"
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  #749  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:06
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I think maybe you need to look up "National Socialism"
I think I know my German history. And I can see lots of parallels to what the SVP is trying to do; although the German Nazis were a bit more selective when it came to the elements they wanted to get rid of
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  #750  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:06
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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So this means foreigners who are here without work permits will not get deported?
No, obviously they have to leave with or without the initiative.
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  #751  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:09
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I think I know my German history. And I can see lots of parallels to what the SVP is trying to do; although the German Nazis were a bit more selective when it came to the elements they wanted to get rid of
Amongst other things, Nazism relies on centralized government and strict state control of businesses, services and utilities. I think you'll find the SVP is directly opposed to those principles.
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  #752  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:12
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Mowvich, how do you come to such conclusion about what the Swiss are thinking? Just about everybody has reached the conclusion it will not be automatic deportation.
One big difference between the SVP proposal & the existing legislation is the "automatic deportation after conviction (following the prison term)". This is what 53% voted for.

So who cares that "Just about everybody has reached the conclusion it will not be .....".
The vote is the vote is the vote.
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  #753  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:12
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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No, obviously they have to leave with or without the initiative.
Funnily they don't, i know of some cases that the individuals declared that they don't have papers, never said their name or country of origin, they kept being held at the police station for a while and then let back in the streets as the authorities didn't have a clue where to deport them to (one of the cases was a guy who got caught with 1 kg of cocaine and a gun), he was let back in the streets after 1 week.
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  #754  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:13
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Amongst other things, Nazism relies on centralized government and strict state control of businesses, services and utilities. I think you'll find the SVP is directly opposed to those principles.
Fair enough, not everything else though
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  #755  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:15
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Amongst other things, Nazism relies on centralized government and strict state control of businesses, services and utilities. I think you'll find the SVP is directly opposed to those principles.
The similarities relevant to this particular debate are not to do with macroeconomic policy, though of course, strict state control of immigration is one of their policies and does have an economic effect.

Really we're looking at the requirements and consequences of populist nationalism and conservatism.
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  #756  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:15
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Well, this is a bit old. The question is now not if the initiative can be implemented, but how.
http://bazonline.ch/schweiz/standard...story/21983769
Please note that Switzerland is actually free to violate "Völkerrecht" (e.g. by separating families), just not "zwingendes Völkerrecht" (e.g. by sending someone to a country where he must expect torture).
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  #757  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:16
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Not really, they have been fear-mongering for years and are directly responsible that about 51% of all Swiss are apparently Nazis now.
nooo watch out

...and apparently most foreigners are criminals, or so I've heard
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  #758  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:17
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Amongst other things, Nazism relies on centralized government and strict state control of businesses, services and utilities. I think you'll find the SVP is directly opposed to those principles.
On the other hand, they're in favor of punishing / deporting whole families if one member committed a crime (Sippenhaft / clan liability), they're strongly promoting indiscriminate action against unwanted / foreign individuals without taking into account personal circumstances (= unconstitutional), they are actively demoting women's rights and demanding that women stay at home and raise children, they're promoting the idea of a two-class regiment for citizenship (naturalized "Swiss" vs. Eidgenossen / real Swiss, akin to Ariers vs. Germans), they're trying to change the whole government system by introducing directly elected federal councils so that they can extend their fear-mongering campaign to the individuals seeking elections etc. etc.

all ideas first heard of in national socialism. Agreed, they don't support the "social" part - they're more like the Neo Nazis in Germany.
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  #759  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:30
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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If a proposal was made to have harsher sentences for black criminals would that be simply anti-crime or would it be racist?
Sorry, but that statement is just as manipulative as people are accusing the SVP. Foreigners are already treated differently in every country in the world based on the fact that they are not citizens. Yeah, I know, global citizens unite.
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  #760  
Old 30.11.2010, 15:32
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Not really, they have been fear-mongering for years and are directly responsible that about 51% of all Swiss are apparently Nazis now.
I'm Swiss myself and I'm ashamed to live here.
It's not about you or any other Swiss, you actually have to be proud being a citizen of this country, it's all about the SVP spreading lies and trying to turn Switzerland into a Neo Nazi state by using their dirty methods of propaganda accompanied by false facts to drive simple and basic Swiss citizens to vote for them for their own (SVP) benefits.

I have so many Swiss friends from everywhere across the country, not me only who thinks like this, they too feel so bad about Switzerland falling into this evil trap of SVP.

I've been here 5 years and i really love this country (regardless of the regular moaning from time to time), and i could see it changing every year, that's why i'm totally against SVP and their evil plans, i feel they are building psychological and mental barriers between the population
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