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  #61  
Old 16.11.2010, 14:41
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Do you always beleiev what the politicians tell you?
I never do.


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No, it is time to speak out to let people know that all foreigners are not bad and make huge contributions.
By all means.... be my guest.
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  #62  
Old 16.11.2010, 14:41
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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No, "Yugos" are from the Ex-Yugoslavia, Pakis are from Pakistan
there are no Yugos anymore...I think they stopped production in 2008.
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  #63  
Old 16.11.2010, 14:42
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Not really. A lot of crimes are committed by repeat offenders. And Switzerland has a reputation as being lax on crime and punishment. Prison cells here are said to be somehwat comfortable. So the point is deterrent.
Do you really think that being sent home is a bigger deterrent than prison?

The broad brush approach of sending all foreign criminals home needs some clarification, for example, forgetting to have your vehicle's exhaust gas checked for a few moths is a criminal offence here.....
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Old 16.11.2010, 14:43
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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No, it is time to speak out to let people know that all foreigners are not bad and make huge contributions.
Maybe you'd like to rephrase that?
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Old 16.11.2010, 14:45
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Do you really think that being sent home is a bigger deterrent than prison?

The broad brush approach of sending all foreign criminals home needs some clarification, for example, forgetting to have your vehicle's exhaust gas checked for a few moths is a criminal offence here.....
Actually, yes. Prisons here are quite comfortable. It's like be sent to one's room, and you get to watch satellite TV the whole day, and get served free food. It's also better for taxes payers and Swiss society NOT to build a prison industrial complex that needs to be fed new inmates.

I'm not sure if the criminal is sent back prior to or after they serve their sentence. Surely, the interest of justice has to be served. No use sending someone back scott free.


Actually, the initiative and counter-proposal are quite clear about the types of crimes this covers. Petty crime is not amongst them.
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Old 16.11.2010, 14:46
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Are you actually correcting me?
Or just being facetious?
you mean you really don't know the difference? Imagine you were attacked by Yugos and told the police -"I was attacked by some Pakis". How would the police make any progress with their investigation?
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  #67  
Old 16.11.2010, 14:48
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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you mean you really don't know the difference? Imagine you were attacked by Yugos and told the police -"I was attacked by some Pakis". How would the police make any progress with their investigation?
Go and look up "equivalent".
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  #68  
Old 16.11.2010, 14:51
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Do you really think that being sent home is a bigger deterrent than prison?
Not sure but once you have spent a little time in a South African jail or in Lagos, I think you would know the answer to that one.
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Old 16.11.2010, 14:55
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I still restate my previous question which was not answered and I am facinated to find out why:

Why is the issue to kicking criminals that are not citizens of a country (possibly not even EU citizens) out of the country (any country) if they commit a crime that the citizens decide it is not acceptable for them to remain constantly made into a racial issue?

As far as I can see it should have nothing to do with race, colour, creed, sex, sexuality, hair colour, cheese preference or anything else other than the crime committed.
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Old 16.11.2010, 15:03
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Not sure but once you have spent a little time in a South African jail or in Lagos, I think you would know the answer to that one.
Ah... You are imagining that the home country would put their returned citizen in a local jail because he committed a crime in Switzerland? Dream on..

This initiative was tried (to send people home to serve their sentences in their home country) but it did not work. Why would a country pay the local prison costs for one of their citizens because he committed a crime abroad?
Much easier & cheaper to let them go - anyway the idea of prison is to stop people repeating their crime(s) & clearly the returned citizen can easily promise they would not repeat the crime in Switzerland - if for no other reason than they are not allowed back into Switzerland.
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Old 16.11.2010, 15:11
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Ah... You are imagining that the home country would put their returned citizen in a local jail because he committed a crime in Switzerland? Dream on..

This initiative was tried (to send people home to serve their sentences in their home country) but it did not work. Why would a country pay the local prison costs for one of their citizens because he committed a crime abroad?
Much easier & cheaper to let them go - anyway the idea of prison is to stop people repeating their crime(s) & clearly the returned citizen can easily promise they would not repeat the crime in Switzerland - if for no other reason than they are not allowed back into Switzerland.

In the case of some of the recent deportees, they served their time in Switzerland, then dispatched to where they came from. Which is just as fine.

I think the implementation of this initiative will not be easy. What is preventing anyone from not telling them where they are from? There are prisoners with no known citizenship, "sans papier". So I wouldn't expect this initiative will be carried out 100% of the time. But a good portion, and even the symbolic passing of this initiative, is just as fine.

Last edited by Phos; 16.11.2010 at 15:22.
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  #72  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:25
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Actually, yes. Prisons here are quite comfortable. It's like be sent to one's room, and you get to watch satellite TV the whole day, and get served free food. It's also better for taxes payers and Swiss society NOT to build a prison industrial complex that needs to be fed new inmates.

I'm not sure if the criminal is sent back prior to or after they serve their sentence. Surely, the interest of justice has to be served. No use sending someone back scott free.


Actually, the initiative and counter-proposal are quite clear about the types of crimes this covers. Petty crime is not amongst them.
That's my question - so these guys are sentenced, convicted and sent where? where will they serve their sentence? how can switzerland ensure that they will indeed pay for their crimes?

(Btw just for the record i am completely against this initiative)
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  #73  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:28
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Ah... You are imagining that the home country would put their returned citizen in a local jail because he committed a crime in Switzerland? Dream on..
Nope I did not think that for one second but many people in South Africa prefer to be in jail than starving on the streets which is a real problem. I would imagine that the situation in Lagos is equally as bad inside and outside a prison for those that can't find work.
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  #74  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:30
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

This is a post I wrote in another Thread about an article in the Beobachter which also gave a couple of 'what will happen' things to think about.
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  #75  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:35
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

and not come straight back here, or the UK, France, wherever - as you well know borders are very easy to cross now. Our local border post is hardly ever manned theses days, and never at night + patrols very rare.
My main concern if what would happen to their families - criminals do have wives, children and elderly parents too.

Switzerland will be further estranged from the EU and risk the 1999 reciprocal agreements as soon as the programme kicks into place. Yes many from the extreme right in other countries will envy us - but for the majority, Switzerland will become the example Numero Uno of xenophobia, and a laughing stock too. As a born Swiss, I really hope this won't come to pass, but sadly it seems, the writing is on the wall.
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  #76  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:35
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

It is this proposed automatism that makes the initiative so appalling..err... appealing. As the boss of the Züri migration office said in an interview, the initiative will increase the numbers of warrants of deportation but won't solve the problems with the execution (of the law).
What is a "Scheinlösung" called in english?
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Old 16.11.2010, 15:38
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Not really a translation but the same sort of thing as 'it seemed like a good idea at the time'

Google says apparant solution - but I still prefer my version.
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  #78  
Old 16.11.2010, 15:39
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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This is a post I wrote in another Thread about an article in the Beobachter which also gave a couple of 'what will happen' things to think about.

Right. Lumping economic crimes with violent crimes is a mistake. This will turn off a lot of Swiss, as it does not make for a fair kind of society. The FDP party has picked up on this, and is urging people to vote for the counter proposal. I'm also put off by it, so am leaning towards the counter proposal.... but I'll check both just in case. If either passes, I think it's a step forward.
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Old 16.11.2010, 15:54
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Well DR, I am definitely NOT. Do you really think that if this initiative goes through it will help Switzerland's standing in the world, both politically and from the business point of view. Do you still believe Switzerland can stand alone, like Kings of the Castle with their Morgartens?
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Old 16.11.2010, 15:57
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Looks like Switzerland might not be the only one "alone".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11762500
http://english.aljazeera.net/busines...849606475.html

And yes though, I do believe that with Switzerland's balance sheet, energy exports, general ideas about neutrality and these sort of things, they stand the best chance out of most countries of being able to make it more independently, but no, it won't help their standing in the world.
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