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  #961  
Old 04.12.2010, 13:14
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I assume the counterpart had little money to spend on their counter campaign.
Also very difficult to counter the simple & strong SVP campaign message without getting into complicated discussions which are not easy to put on a poster & might just make things worse.
I suppose the argument that 25% of the crime is committed by (sans papier) foreigners - not 50+% by the 22% with permits could easily backfire.
Before the "counterpart" started the counter-campaign, all polls showed that the SVP initiative had the support of 65%, the outcome in the end was 55% which shows that the counter-initiative would have had a chance without that no-no-campaign of the SP leftwingers.

Can I say for sure that the leadership of the SP leftwingers regards the outcome as a defeat ? Possibly yes, possibly no. Why possibly no ? Because the Gegenvorschlag, not very logically in fact, also contained an "Integration-Article". That article would have gone lost in parliament as it has nothing to do with the "punishment-law" (Strafgesetzbuch) but rather with the Civil Law (ZGB Zivilgesetzbuch). I expect, that somebody, possibly the SP, will launch something about integration, with a good chance to win, if the campaign is done properly.
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  #962  
Old 08.12.2010, 23:35
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

A very interesting interview in the current Illustré - with Olivier Gueniat,, the Head of NE police. He claims that violent crime has actually significantly fallen in the past decade, and that most crime perpetrated by foreigners is by EU members, French, Italians and Portuguese. Worth a read if your French is up to it.
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  #963  
Old 09.12.2010, 00:09
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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A very interesting interview in the current Illustré - with Olivier Gueniat,, the Head of NE police. He claims that violent crime has actually significantly fallen in the past decade, and that most crime perpetrated by foreigners is by EU members, French, Italians and Portuguese. Worth a read if your French is up to it.
This is a bit different in German-speaking Switzerland, where the crime-rate among resident Italians over the past 30 years has fallen and the ones of French people due to the low numbers of French here is irrelevant and the one of Portuguese here is very low. Most crime perpetrated by foreigners here is by FRY members (countries out of the former Federal Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia).

I when telling some three policemen I know, at an aviation-oriented meeting that the habit of ZH police to differentiate between the various "ex-Yugo" nations was a bit irritating, got the reply that I was right in principle (etc) but that for them this "ex-Yugo" thing was part of their daily professional life, and was at times a threat to their life. But, as the most high-ranking of them told me, a "high crime rate" means that some 0,01% to 0.03% of a certain nationality were affected, and out of that, most in a rather "mild" way, which means that heavy crime at worst affects some 0.001% of people. This may be many people, but means that the vast and overwhelming majority is punished daily for the misdeeds of an incredibly tiny minority .
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  #964  
Old 15.02.2011, 09:22
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Today I read (in last weekends paper) an article about a "foreigner" who came here in 2001, married a Swiss woman in 2002, sired a child in 2003, left her in 2004.
In 2008 the migration council asked him to leave, because he was caught dealing drugs.
He says that he is "well integrated" into the Swiss community (maybe these are his customers?). The judge disagrees about the "quality" of his integration.
He also says he needs to stay because he has a good relationship with his son. The judge could not see evidence of this.(? Unsure how this is tested, but I'm no professional.)

So say this guy came to "insert your home country here".
Same story.
Would you want to "send him home"?
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  #965  
Old 15.02.2011, 10:46
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Would you want to "send him home"?
A bit of a baited question, no? If he is a permanent resident of a country, then I expect that he would be treated the same as any citizen of the country.
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  #966  
Old 15.02.2011, 11:19
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Today I read (in last weekends paper) an article about a "foreigner" who came here in 2001, married a Swiss woman in 2002, sired a child in 2003, left her in 2004.
In 2008 the migration council asked him to leave, because he was caught dealing drugs.
He says that he is "well integrated" into the Swiss community (maybe these are his customers?). The judge disagrees about the "quality" of his integration.
He also says he needs to stay because he has a good relationship with his son. The judge could not see evidence of this.(? Unsure how this is tested, but I'm no professional.)

So say this guy came to "insert your home country here".
Same story.
Would you want to "send him home"?
But this post is about the existing law; not about the new expulsion initiative which is not yet a law here. So why post here?
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  #967  
Old 15.02.2011, 12:14
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Today I read (in last weekends paper) an article about a "foreigner" who came here in 2001, married a Swiss woman in 2002, sired a child in 2003, left her in 2004.
In 2008 the migration council asked him to leave, because he was caught dealing drugs.
He says that he is "well integrated" into the Swiss community (maybe these are his customers?). The judge disagrees about the "quality" of his integration.
He also says he needs to stay because he has a good relationship with his son. The judge could not see evidence of this.(? Unsure how this is tested, but I'm no professional.)

So say this guy came to "insert your home country here".
Same story.
Would you want to "send him home"?
I'd send him, his son and his perfidious Swiss ex-wife - who would be stripped of her citizenship for polluting the pure Alpine blood of her forebears - to a third country. Somalia, perhaps, or Algeria. Then I'd raze their houses to the ground, throwing all their possessions and pets into a large pit of lime.

Just for good measure, the entire family would be sterilised.

Any attempt to re-enter the country would be punished by hanging, drawing and quartering.

In this way, others might be encouraged to leave their criminal tendencies behind when they move to the Helvetic paradise of Switzerland.
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  #968  
Old 15.02.2011, 12:25
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I'd...
You don't happen to work for the Sun, do you?
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  #969  
Old 15.02.2011, 12:25
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

I really do not think that a drug dealing supposedly integrated furiner is a symptom of his roots, rather of what is happening here...I wonder, if he truly was integrated and accepted, with a decent job and no prejudice, he still needed to hang on the street and risking all he has for a bit of cash. To attach a symptom of one's society to individuals, strip them off their family and ship them off, makes no sense. Besides, I think it might be against the human rights chart, innit. HIm being a dad and all. That person most probably needs help, not extradition. What he does is of course wrong, but how do natives get treated if they do something like this? Where do they get shipped? Bouncing responsibility off to other govs is not going to treat the trouble, me thinks. Strict rules, equal for all no matter what, but anally followed by all institutions soon enough usually bring some positive progress...If people feel like they can do whatever here, wherever and whenever, and then all of a sudden they find themselves back home, just sounds like institutions don't deal with the situ soon enough and efficiently.
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  #970  
Old 15.02.2011, 14:00
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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and quartering.
Too far good Sir...too far!

The whole thing about "sending em back" comes from the insane and fallacious notion that we're all guests and privileged to be here. The reality is that Switzerland and every other country acts in its own self interest (as well it should). Its a trade - we get jobs and Switzerland gets workers. We get Switzerland and Switzerland gets us. However there's never been a wholly even trade, we're never in equilibrium. Oftentimes, Switzerland will get a win - they'll entice someone over who will pay insane amounts of tax, use almost nothing and generally contribute massively to the country in that way. Or they'll get one of you lovely people on the forum who'll fall in love with the place, get a job, pay tax and try and be more Swiss than the Swiss. Also a win for the Confederacy.

Sometimes, they'll take someone in, and they'll turn out to be a rapist. Well that's just tough luck Switzerland - you pays your money, you takes your chance! If Switzerland can benefit from the good it can darn well "look after"/punish etc the bad.
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Old 15.02.2011, 14:20
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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You don't happen to work for the Sun, do you?
No!

(but he wants to work for the Daily Mail)

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  #972  
Old 15.02.2011, 14:35
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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No!

(but he wants to work for the Daily Mail)

I believe the Sun pays better; result of having a huge circulation, innit!
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  #973  
Old 15.02.2011, 14:39
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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I believe the Sun pays better; result of having a huge circulation, innit!
Nah . . . If DB was in it for the money, he wouldn't be a teacher.
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  #974  
Old 20.02.2011, 23:31
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

This is the guy behind those controversial political posters.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...977923&theater
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  #975  
Old 20.02.2011, 23:34
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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This is the guy behind those controversial political posters.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...977923&theater
On your commercial facebook page?

Well, fancy that!
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  #976  
Old 21.02.2011, 00:09
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Commercial? I wouldn't say that. I'm not selling anything but showing my photos.
Anyway... I had to take photos of him for the newspaper for which I work. Funny thing, he comes from Germany, so he is a foreigner himself. I have to say, while I do not agree at all with the message behind those posters, as a marketing action I find them to be extremely good.
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  #977  
Old 21.02.2011, 01:22
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Commercial? I wouldn't say that. I'm not selling anything but showing my photos.
Anyway... I had to take photos of him for the newspaper for which I work. Funny thing, he comes from Germany, so he is a foreigner himself. I have to say, while I do not agree at all with the message behind those posters, as a marketing action I find them to be extremely good.
show your WEBsite in your profile just behind the word "photographer"
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  #978  
Old 21.02.2011, 07:32
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

Nah, I'm out of here. Too many unfriendly people. Chau!
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  #979  
Old 21.02.2011, 22:17
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

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Nah, I'm out of here. Too many unfriendly people. Chau!
You have not been at EF meetings ! Most are very friendly people
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Old 29.06.2011, 10:41
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Re: What if? Consequences of expulsion initiative being accepted?

As expected it is proving very difficult to draft the legislation resulting from the vote to expel foreign criminals; see report in Swissinfo below. There are 4 alternative proposals from the committee; 3 are majority supported & one much tougher one that is SVP supported.
Not surprisingly even the majority supported proposed rules are much, much tougher than many peope here forecast.
For example for the majority a minor crime that has a 6 month sentence is sufficient grounds to expel a foreign "criminal".
For the SVP supported proposal any sentence (1 day?) is sufficient grounds to expel a foreign criminal.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials...l?cid=30557476
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